WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Rowain]

Stay awhile and listen to me rambling about some posts I don't really like:

Didn't realize I'd be putting him in the lead. I don't mind, but that wasn't my motivation. Just for the record.

Why would villager zak point out that he doesn't want to put someone he suspects into the lead?

Here's a question for everyone around. I think if Meiz is nice and Rowain is a baddie, Rowain would get pretty angry at the GM for giving villagers such an easy way to clear themselves. So someone should look at Rowain's vote against Meiz and analyse if it's an "angry-at-GM" revenge vote or just an "I-suspect-you" vote. I'd do it, but I'm a poor judge of character. I always judge all characters poor...


And of course, master calls:

Zakalwe

First this rouse has been used by scum in the past (example zak asked the GM a queston and used the fact that the GM announced that he has been asked for an attack on me. ) Which together with above make me really wonder aboput the alignement of you 2.
And second your vote on zak is anice classical distancing vote. reasons given =0. Not to mention that you were already voting for zak then (since post 48) but not 30 minutes later you had suddenly the epiphany to vote for Gaspar.

So current feeling: Ichabod

[Jkaen]

Don't want to say too much this early but given what I know there may be a good reason for Morte following me around a bit and us protecting each other right now, so I wouldn't read too much into those aspects of his play.

The first paragraph Rowain quotes however I consider fair game and admit it could be considered a scum tell, although I prefer my vote on Tansuke (which I am surprised nobody else made any comment on)

[Rowain]

And now some additional ramblings:

I do have a strong feeling that Gaspar is innocent. I personally would prefer him not to get lynched today (And yes I know I'm the president of the Gaspar-fanclub).

I agree wholeheartedly with this. From what I've read, it seems that Zakalwe, Gaspar, and probably novice are pretty good players. So, barring real evidence, it seems a bad play to try and lynch one of them on Day 1 based off hunches and joke votes. If we kill them and they flip village, that's going to make the rest of the game that bit harder. Let's wait until we have something more concrete to work with there.

Thats BS. There aren't many villagers capable to get a zak-lynch going. And you can bet who will be the targets in the first 2 nights. Barring a scan-result it is only during the first few days that you can lynch them without help from the wolf-team. If you have the feeling one of those is scum you have to push for their lynch early on else they won't get lynched.

As far as Gaspar ... he is just RPing so heaviliy, I dunno, maybe a traitor or survivalist, but I think I'd bet on wolf for now.

Kill me if ya want, its just how I feel.

"So heavily." Really? I've spritzed in maybe a total of 10 Italian words and referenced templars and tombs a couple times. I'm definitely on the low-end of the RP scale - I still haven't the faintest idea wtf about a third of these guys are on about.

Whatever you smoke in the morning, might be time for a reduction.

Wholeheartedly agree with Gaspar here.

[Rowain]

Don't want to say too much this early but given what I know there may be a good reason for Morte following me around a bit and us protecting each other right now, so I wouldn't read too much into those aspects of his play.

While that may be the case the fact remains that he was already voting for zakalwe before (so no need for that post) and that he switched to Gaspar shortly after without your leading vote.
I'm quite sure that you don't have full control over this head and maybe he wants to become Master instead of the master .

[Meiz]

I'd had expected wolf-Rowain to continue butting heads against me, nice way to spend the first day.

I'd be really tempted to vote Tasunke, but his posts so far are not surprising me.

Jkaen, gameplay wise it makes sense for Ichabod to follow you around and even protect you. But is it just your guess or do you have facts on it?

Gazglum, on your post http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336538
Gaius clearly states that flug_auto has been reluctant to post his thoughts, so he wants to pressure him to talk more. Why did you choose Gaius and ignored the other flug voters, who don't seem to have any better reasons?

Ichabod, what was the motivation on voting Zak in here, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336434
How is voting Zak on day 1 different than voting me on day 1?

[Jkaen]

Meiz,

Given what my response to that question would tell the scum, are you sure you want me to answer that?

[zakalwe]

Zakalwe & Q - can you both explain why you think the case on flug is weak? Zak, especially you. This appears a lot like what thestick did in WW19 (18?). And you nailed him for that day 1. How is this different?

Zakalwe
I don't like his explanation he gave when confronted by Serdoa about knowing what he hunts. I didn't see it as a joke vote when he made it, and I suspect this could be a blind leap by wolf-zak into trying to sound confident but slipping and making a mistake. My PM makes no mention of who we're hunting either -- an odd choice by uberfish, to not put a story motivation into us voting to kill one of the group -- and you confidently knew that you were.

zakalwe I think for now. How well he answers my question about flug will go a long way.

This doesn't make much sense. It had already been stated by several that the town PM says nothing about who the bad guys are. Why would I then deliberately contradict that, as a scum gambit? My statement was clearly a joke. The smiley at the end of it should be a pretty strong hint in that regard.

People are comparing flug to thestick and I think that's a poor comparison. Thestick showed pretty classical scumtells, revealing an underlying desire to have somebody else lynched. We're not seeing that from flug here. If he is scum I would rather compare it to Q's scum game, where he had me completely fooled by looking so much like a helpless, inept, villager. Flug isn't quite at that end of the spectrum, either, though. So I don't really have an issue with people voting to lynch him, but it still feels a bit too obvious to me.

Didn't realize I'd be putting him in the lead. I don't mind, but that wasn't my motivation. Just for the record.

Why would villager zak point out that he doesn't want to put someone he suspects into the lead?

My post clearly says that I don't mind putting him in the lead. I just wanted to clarify that my vote wasn't just a "let's get some random bandwagon going" vote.

That said, I freely admit my case against Gaspar isn't very strong, and I'm actually fine with him largely ignoring it. I was being very honest about it back here:

@Gaspar. I don't see wanting to get credit for your tells as a scum trait. Did you think that was my view? I don't see panicking as a very reliable scum tell, either. And I'm not waiting for you to say anything in particular, I just haven't found a better place for my vote. For some reason it's always very easy to read your posts as scummy. (They're all so nice and fluffy. ) So it's hard to resist the temptation to lynch you, particularly on day one.

I would like an answer to the bolded question, though. I don't like how Gaspar integrated this into his assessment of Meiz, here:

Uber is big on fair. A scum Meiz could have asked uber - what is town told they're hunting and uber would answer that. The fact that Meiz puts it out there feels townish, the fact that he wanted to make sure he got credit for it seems scummy. All in all, null. My vote is on him because I sensed frustration/panic in his reaction and its way too early for a talented player like Meiz to feel that way. Bottom line, its the scummiest tell I've seen from an established player.

Feels a bit like he's just picking up points made by others and spinning them into a case against Meiz without really considering their merit.

[Meiz]

Given what my response to that question would tell the scum, are you sure you want me to answer that?

You've already stated: "given what I know there may be a good reason for Morte following me around a bit and us protecting each other right now"

I wasn't sure if you meant given what you know based on the Planescape torment game or something else. You're the best judge to decide on what to tell.

[Jkaen]

Darn I kind of backed myself into a corner on that one didnt I.

Based on the role PM i received is suspect that there is an in WW game reason for us to protect each other atm.

I realise the above is vague, but hopefully you see the reason for that as I dont want to give too many clues about either of our powers

[zakalwe]

Some more thoughts. A bit rushed here.

Ichabod is hilarious IMO. I don't read him as scummy so far.

Ryan does feel lacking in content. Also, Ryan, Uberfish has stated very explicitly that alignments were assigned randomly. So stop voting for Q based on him being a werewolf. It's not a valid reason. (Feel free to come back with a new reason, though.)

Meiz, that is a pretty bad reasoning. If anyone making similar posts later on would have had time to think things through and decide on a gambit, what exactly is the reason we should not believe that this is what you did? Imo if you did perceived that as town tells, you tell it. I would do the same thing if I had realised it. Thats perfectly fine, no reason to come up with elaborate thought-processes that led you to decide to tell us - I don't expect any townie to think long about telling the others what they perceive as town-tell. And that is why I perceive the reasoning you give as shoddy. Again, as with your Tasunke-unvote, it is not the action itself that I don't like, but the way you try to explain it.

Meiz

I don't find this post by Serdoa very convincing. Nothing wrong with the argument per se, but I'm not sure I buy that it's founded in a genuine suspicion. I actually get some "vote parking" vibes from this.