WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Serdoa]

x-post with pindicator , That line about him posting is very similiar to selrahc I will give you that but that line "
Serdoa seems to enjoy testing as much as I do! I find his test results quite fascinating... (Testing = Scum Hunting for all intents and purposes.)
Do you want to join on zak? Or should I join you on ichabod
" If I remmber correctly. wasnt that how Zak got Serdoa to move his lynch away from Selrahc day 2 last game?

Nah, there is a distinct difference Ryan. zak asked me to change my vote, but did never consider changing his. Pindicator has a different agenda here.

@pindi: I would consider zak scummy as well, but I think Ichabod gave the strongest reads. I do agree with you on flugs acting, but I also do believe that a villager might panic the same way and don't necessarily see his acting as scum-tell. I am wary though that he seems to be writing in the quicktopic with Molach now if I understood his post correctly. If he writes there he should be able to write here.

Ryan, I haven't voted for Flug. But I'm strongly considering it. Better to mislynch him today than later. And maybe he is scum, too.

Can you explain why it is better if we mislynch him today instead of say D4?

It's easier to hit scum on D4.

Thats not answering the question zak. If it is easier to hit scum on D4, why no wait with his lynch till D4? If it is easier to lynch scum D4, we should be much more able to read him and others and prevent a mislynch. Again, why is it better if we mislynch him today than on D4?

I help you: It isn't. A mislynch is always bad, the timing makes no difference. And the only reason for your sentence in the quote was that you already tried to cover your bases when you have to switch to flug to save Ichabod and the mislynch happens.

[Gaspar]

Going to reply to the Brothers Annoygasparov first:

[Did you think that was my view?

I don't really remember what I was thinking well enough to answer this in the past. I'll answer in the now - I don't really know how you think. Because I think you're generally a sharp villager and I like to consider myself also a generally sharp villager I often make the presumption we think about things similarly when I haven't played for a while before we inevitably spend the whole game butting heads and I hate you and everything you stand for. And I believe getting heavily involved in the credit game is a scumtell. More on this in response to the chick with the backpack. (FWIW, you should totally have been Swiper.)

Bigger, do you ever actually try in these games? You're trying to ride coattails of zak's flimsy but at least partly justified crusade against me. I especially don't like the post where you try to claim credit for being part of starting it when all you've actually contributed is a joke vote you haven't moved and your "me too" posts. I'm very sensitive to people trying to get in on or deflect credit before we know results, especially under no pressure. So here, have some pressure.

But why would scum Bigger want credit for your lynch, unless you yourself are scum?

Have we started lynching people for bad reads? In the games I've played, we give credit for being on the bus early and/or contributing heavily to it. So often when you get to day 4 or so the scum argument is something along the lines of "I read 4 days and nothing." If you can point to "I led the bus on Gaspar on day 1" great. Also, and I think this is the critical point - its highly unlikely I get lynched on day 1. I've never gotten lynched on day 1. I usually defend okay and there's usually someone who draws attention to themselves. Sure - maybe everyone reads this post and decides they want to put me in my place and there's nothing I can do to stop it - but barring something like that I know I'm not getting lynched today, zakalwe knows I'm not getting lynched today, you know I'm not getting lynched today and Bigger knows I'm not getting lynched today. So the only thing better than having credit for a failed lynch is having credit for being out in front of a lynch only to have the oh so stupid village fail to follow you.

The other thing, and the primary reason I'm on Bigger right now - villagers only get in the credit game when they're under pressure. Scum anticipate being under pressure and look for credit immediately. Most villagers take a Pollyanna view and think their villagerness will shine through and hence don't lay groundwork in the same way. Bigger started trying to "claim" my bus before he had gotten any pressure at all. Just doesn't make any sense.

I know that doesn't really answer Zak's question directly, but hopefully it reveals my thought process well enough.

[pindicator]

I just realized I never voted flug. Whoops, that fake edit timing threw me.

Serdoa, I will join you on ichabod. But I may very well switch to flug if I don't like what he does from here on out (for example, doing nothing)

I'm going to step out for a while. Should be able to see what's up before deadline, and to see if I need to switch to flug or not.

@Ryan
It's pretty obvious that I'm counting, isn't it?

3

[Ichabod]

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to read all the 15 pages of talk that I'm behind. I just won't have the time today. Lynch me if you want, rest assured that you all will have the excuse of "he was playing so badly that he deserved to be lynched" after I flip a goodie. Maybe they are right, though, because I can't play this game when there's more than 15 players or so. It's too much information, specially with so little time.

I think Serdoa wrote more words on his 2/3 accusation posts against me than I wrote all game. Goes to show how things roll around here. Lots of words, must be something good right. Nothing against Serdoa, let me add, it's something pretty common.

Anyway, i'm still waiting for a certain player, who seems to have disappeared. I can't decide my vote before he posts...

[zakalwe]

x-post with pindicator , That line about him posting is very similiar to selrahc I will give you that but that line "
Serdoa seems to enjoy testing as much as I do! I find his test results quite fascinating... (Testing = Scum Hunting for all intents and purposes.)
Do you want to join on zak? Or should I join you on ichabod
" If I remmber correctly. wasnt that how Zak got Serdoa to move his lynch away from Selrahc day 2 last game?

Nah, there is a distinct difference Ryan. zak asked me to change my vote, but did never consider changing his. Pindicator has a different agenda here.

@pindi: I would consider zak scummy as well, but I think Ichabod gave the strongest reads. I do agree with you on flugs acting, but I also do believe that a villager might panic the same way and don't necessarily see his acting as scum-tell. I am wary though that he seems to be writing in the quicktopic with Molach now if I understood his post correctly. If he writes there he should be able to write here.

Ryan, I haven't voted for Flug. But I'm strongly considering it. Better to mislynch him today than later. And maybe he is scum, too.

Can you explain why it is better if we mislynch him today instead of say D4?

It's easier to hit scum on D4.

Thats not answering the question zak. If it is easier to hit scum on D4, why no wait with his lynch till D4? If it is easier to lynch scum D4, we should be much more able to read him and others and prevent a mislynch. Again, why is it better if we mislynch him today than on D4?

I help you: It isn't. A mislynch is always bad, the timing makes no difference. And the only reason for your sentence in the quote was that you already tried to cover your bases when you have to switch to flug to save Ichabod and the mislynch happens.

Hello? That IS answering the question.

Yeah it's easier to avoid a mislynch on day 4. THAT IS WHAT I JUST SAID. Someone needs to hang today, though.

I really shouldn't have to explain this stuff to you, Serdoa. It's pretty basic.

[Ryan]

Pindicator you asked me to do something and when I said I am confused about what you exactly asked you didnt respond. just pointing that out.

[Ichabod]

I just realized I never voted flug. Whoops, that fake edit timing threw me.

Serdoa, I will join you on ichabod. But I may very well switch to flug if I don't like what he does from here on out (for example, doing nothing)

I'm going to step out for a while. Should be able to see what's up before deadline, and to see if I need to switch to flug or not.

@Ryan
It's pretty obvious that I'm counting, isn't it?

3

I pointed out that Pindicator attacked Gazglum for voting Gaius while he mostly suspected flug_auto, while Pindicator himself attacked Gazglum and flug_auto more than Zak, whom he was voting for.

Everybody went: "No, stupid! Pindicator posted long posts talking about several players. You are just a stupid badmouthed skull that doesn't know a thing. Pindicator is goodie".

Now, Pindicator is doing the same thing again...

He must be super good, then.....

[Gaspar]

Few non-Gasparcentric thoughts (in fairness, it is my favorite topic)

• I agree with the general consensus that a player disappearing completely from view under pressure is a pretty huge newbie wolf scumtell. WW16 was pretty eye-opening for me because it was my first time playing as scum as the "leader of the pack" and there are just some players who aren't comfortable with lying. Flug might be one of those players. I'm willing to give him an extra day because I feel more certain about Bigger.
  
• I find myself agreeing with Serdoa a lot. I never agree with Serdoa a lot, I don't think this is a good sign.
  
• I don't want to vote Ichabod because I can't really tell what percentage of his scumminess is just him being goofy and what percentage is him being scummy because scum. He's earned his heat though.
  
• Ryan - you're making my head hurt.
  
• What happened to Tasunke? Shouldn't he be revealing his role by now?
  
• I actually agree with zak that Azza makes a decent D1 policy lynch, though I think we have better candidates.
  

[novice]

Going to reply to the Brothers Annoygasparov first:

Bigger, do you ever actually try in these games? You're trying to ride coattails of zak's flimsy but at least partly justified crusade against me. I especially don't like the post where you try to claim credit for being part of starting it when all you've actually contributed is a joke vote you haven't moved and your "me too" posts. I'm very sensitive to people trying to get in on or deflect credit before we know results, especially under no pressure. So here, have some pressure.

But why would scum Bigger want credit for your lynch, unless you yourself are scum?

Have we started lynching people for bad reads? In the games I've played, we give credit for being on the bus early and/or contributing heavily to it. So often when you get to day 4 or so the scum argument is something along the lines of "I read 4 days and nothing." If you can point to "I led the bus on Gaspar on day 1" great. Also, and I think this is the critical point - its highly unlikely I get lynched on day 1. I've never gotten lynched on day 1. I usually defend okay and there's usually someone who draws attention to themselves. Sure - maybe everyone reads this post and decides they want to put me in my place and there's nothing I can do to stop it - but barring something like that I know I'm not getting lynched today, zakalwe knows I'm not getting lynched today, you know I'm not getting lynched today and Bigger knows I'm not getting lynched today. So the only thing better than having credit for a failed lynch is having credit for being out in front of a lynch only to have the oh so stupid village fail to follow you.

The other thing, and the primary reason I'm on Bigger right now - villagers only get in the credit game when they're under pressure. Scum anticipate being under pressure and look for credit immediately. Most villagers take a Pollyanna view and think their villagerness will shine through and hence don't lay groundwork in the same way. Bigger started trying to "claim" my bus before he had gotten any pressure at all. Just doesn't make any sense.

Thanks Gaspar, I figured this was what you meant, but your elaboration is most eloquent. Sorry if I annoy you, don't you think my question was legitimate?

I take slight exception with "the other thing" though. As a villager I'm often keen to gain village cred, as I know I'm prone to catch heat eventually. Besides, my personal goal as town is usually to get nightkilled.

[Ryan]

What did I say that could have possibly made your head hurt Gaspar? I think everything was pretty clear...