WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[zakalwe]

Ok you're right Serdoa, I didn't actually read the question I was answering carefully enough, and it turns out that it was actually just a rhetorical question and I shouldn't have bothered to answer it.

Anyway, here's my stance. It's better to mislynch Flug today than to mislynch X today because it's much more likely that X will be able to defend himself well and avoid a mislynch down the line. This holds for most values of X, and in particular for X = Ichabod.

[novice]

What is the case on Ichabod?

[zakalwe]

Why would Azza be a better policy lynch than flug?

Yeah, I was about to say this, that if we're looking for a pure policy lynch, Flug is the best one around. Azza isn't a pure policy lynch for me, though. Those were Gaspar's words.

[Gaspar]

Thanks, novice.

I don't think flug is innocent, I just want to hear from him before we lynch him. I'm pretty much dead neutral - he's obviously floundering, but it could be newbie scum or overwhelmed new villager. We've seen both plenty of times.

[Rowain]

It's better to mislynch Flug today than to mislynch X today because it's much more likely that X will be able to defend himself well and avoid a mislynch down the line. This holds for most values of X, and in particular for X = Ichabod.

While I agree on that it is only true as long as it is a mislynch- which we don't know. And I don't want to remind you how much flack I got just because I argued for a certain mislynch beeing better than another in the last game . Strange how fast values can change depending who is the mislynch in question.

What is the case on Ichabod?

Perhaps you can start to look for the posts yourself? I think both myself and Serdoa have tried to talk about the reasons we think Ichabod should be lynched. I'm feeling a bit too old to be a tibetan prayingmill for some lazy girl-brat .

[Bigger]

heading off to SP party soon, this will be my last post.
I'm happy flug and Ichabod on the chopping block. Hopefully one of them lynches. The longer flug goes without posting the more suspicious I am of him - but to be honest, I can't bring myself to vote for a newbie on day one. I still regret lynching VM in ww14, I think he would have been invaluable to the village if he had lived. I also think its possible both Flug and Ichabod are scum. so my vote is staying on Ichabod.

Ryan, I agree that Bigger doesn't smell very rosy. But a nonsensical reason is still better than no reason, IMO. Whatever you say can and will be used against you. If you say nothing, we can never get a tell on your alignment, so we're better off lynching you now. (You = Flug in this instance.)

I just cant see a reason is better than no reason. Bigger has a lot more to gain the way he is playing it. He mentions several people , if they get mislynched well he moved away from them. If one of them was his scum buddy well he started the wagon on him and Bigger gets cover. Thats beside the points I made earlier and I am just trying to show that I am really not liking the votes on flug and it feels like watching a Rowain dying again.

Zak : Can you explain the flug ordeal? Its pretty confusing or I am not honestly noticing the point can you elaborate more? and The bigger thing. I honestly dont feel like this is how he would play if he was town.

sigh. Ryan, please LISTEN to me!

This is exactly how I have always played villager. You've played 1 game with me, and I was scum that game, so i don't know why you think you have a read on how I play villager. In all 3 of my scum games (including ww13, before I was pouting) I tried to blend in and go with the flow. In all of my villager games, including ww12, which was my first ww game on RB, I was aggressive and put myself out there. Which is exactly what I am doing now.

Going to reply to the Brothers Annoygasparov first:

[Did you think that was my view?

I don't really remember what I was thinking well enough to answer this in the past. I'll answer in the now - I don't really know how you think. Because I think you're generally a sharp villager and I like to consider myself also a generally sharp villager I often make the presumption we think about things similarly when I haven't played for a while before we inevitably spend the whole game butting heads and I hate you and everything you stand for. And I believe getting heavily involved in the credit game is a scumtell. More on this in response to the chick with the backpack. (FWIW, you should totally have been Swiper.)

Bigger, do you ever actually try in these games? You're trying to ride coattails of zak's flimsy but at least partly justified crusade against me. I especially don't like the post where you try to claim credit for being part of starting it when all you've actually contributed is a joke vote you haven't moved and your "me too" posts. I'm very sensitive to people trying to get in on or deflect credit before we know results, especially under no pressure. So here, have some pressure.

But why would scum Bigger want credit for your lynch, unless you yourself are scum?

Have we started lynching people for bad reads? In the games I've played, we give credit for being on the bus early and/or contributing heavily to it. So often when you get to day 4 or so the scum argument is something along the lines of "I read 4 days and nothing." If you can point to "I led the bus on Gaspar on day 1" great. Also, and I think this is the critical point - its highly unlikely I get lynched on day 1. I've never gotten lynched on day 1. I usually defend okay and there's usually someone who draws attention to themselves. Sure - maybe everyone reads this post and decides they want to put me in my place and there's nothing I can do to stop it - but barring something like that I know I'm not getting lynched today, zakalwe knows I'm not getting lynched today, you know I'm not getting lynched today and Bigger knows I'm not getting lynched today. So the only thing better than having credit for a failed lynch is having credit for being out in front of a lynch only to have the oh so stupid village fail to follow you.

The other thing, and the primary reason I'm on Bigger right now - villagers only get in the credit game when they're under pressure. Scum anticipate being under pressure and look for credit immediately. Most villagers take a Pollyanna view and think their villagerness will shine through and hence don't lay groundwork in the same way. Bigger started trying to "claim" my bus before he had gotten any pressure at all. Just doesn't make any sense.

I know that doesn't really answer Zak's question directly, but hopefully it reveals my thought process well enough.

Where exactly was I trying to get credit for anyone's lynch? I made *one* post, defending myself from Ryan, saying simply that I haven't followed Zak anywhere, but rather he followed me onto you. That was made AFTER you started the "Bigger trying to get credit" argument. This entire post seems incredibly contrived to me.

Nobody else for Bigger? Only other thing I can think of to say to convince is I get the sense that he's playing this angry sort of game which seems exactly like his scum game last time. He made a comment about not liking the RB metagame that I didn't like. I always feel like the lashing out at things you can't control is a frustrated scumtell. Just a collection of little things, I guess. I really think he's a better option than flug, who I'd like to see post at least once before we lynch him and Ichabod, who I sort of feel like must be driving at something, he's not even trying to save himself, really.

Not angry at all. I've lashed out at problems I have with the rbmeta plenty of times in lurker threads after I was mislynched in several games, so calling it a scumtell is laughable. Look at my long rant after ww17, for instance. or even ww12, my first game, where Zak was clear scum and I couldnt get him lynched.

[Ryan]

@Bigger , I honestly wrote more and explained how I think you are not playing the way I imagine you should if you were town. I am givign you the benefit of the doubt that you are busy and have to go . Doesnt look like your getting lynched anywayz. I am gonna either keep my vote on you or decide on which of the people in the top list I am gonna vote for .. I guess.

[novice]

What is the case on Ichabod?

Perhaps you can start to look for the posts yourself? I think both myself and Serdoa have tried to talk about the reasons we think Ichabod should be lynched. I'm feeling a bit too old to be a tibetan prayingmill for some lazy girl-brat .

I've been reading along but I'm not convinced. I think summarizing the case could be useful, both for the Ichabod voters to gather their thoughts, and for everybody else to make up their mind.

I'm happy to stay on Flug, though.

[uberfish]

Ichabod (6) - Brick Bigger Jkaen Molach Pindicator Serdoa
Flug (5) - Azza Gaius Lewwyn Mattimeo Novice
Bigger (2) - Gaspar Ryan
Gazprom (2) - Ichabod Meiz
Lewwyn (2) - Flug Molach
Azza (1) - Zak
Brickastley (1) - Q
Gaspar (1) - Tasunke
GaiusMarius (1) - Gazglum

[Meiz]

Ichabod voted Brick but messed up the color codes, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336986