WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[BRickAstley]

Given that scum has already lost 2 I wouldn't be too surprised if Jkaen remembers that he is anti-town when his momory comes back.

I don't think that logic holds. I think it's easier for us to hit 2 out of 4 people knowingly playing as scum than 2 out of 3.

I'm assuming we have 4 wolves and a SK. So actually town has probably hit 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3, and the SK killed Gaspar.

4 & SK sounds about right for this number. Though I think 5 & SK could still be possible as well, but its not a huge deal to worry about right now.

[Qgqqqqq]

I think its more likely meiz is a SK, then a third wolf.

[Ichabod]

@Ichabod OOI what happened with your Gazglum-crusade?

I never suspected Gazglum, what are you talking about?

---

Just kidding. I reread the posts and it just wasn't there. I was probably too eager. I'll wait and see what he does. For now, there are better targets.

[Rowain]

Given that scum has already lost 2 I wouldn't be too surprised if Jkaen remembers that he is anti-town when his momory comes back.

I don't think that logic holds. I think it's easier for us to hit 2 out of 4 people knowingly playing as scum than 2 out of 3.

Only if our hits are random which Tasunke was clearly not. Maybe they were only 3 and with GAspar gone there was noone left to reign in Tas or at least give him hints.

But that aside I was rather thinking: Maybe Uberfish left Jkaens-role unclear so that he can rebalance on the fly (If the scum lose members very fast they get Jkaen as help OTOH if the village loses them fast he returns as villager).

Another speculation is also that maybe Gaspar agreed to play scum as long as he dies night1 and scum gets Jkaen as replacement.

Yes thats all idle meta-speculations

[Molach]

Not fully caught up, but read the thread on phone around 16 PM. I did skim to see what the fuzz was about and suppose I should thank Meiz for vigging Tas and trying to lynch me, and not the other way round...

Lewwyn deserves an answer, as he started my little train today.
Now I remember very well posts concerning me in the thread, so I was first wondering why noone voting me at least addressed the post Ichabod quoted earlier? Call it distancing, but not just ignore it outright. A bit lazy, we got a dead wolf and just 1 day and night worth of posts to read, I think I'd check if said wolf said anything about my intended vote recipient before voting. Gaspar earlier said "Molach also did this, posting itiniary as wolf..." something, which I agree can both be viewed as either distancing of fellow or future setting up a lynch of villager.

I'll quote some posts from WW 16 wolf thread.

Lewwyn to Molach "btw Molach, way to lurk!"
Molach to wolves (Lewwyn, Meiz, Gaspar):
"I know.
I suck at wolf, when the attacks tomorrow start I'll do a 'never got any votes, so no reason to defend + no meta to speculate about, so drifted into laziness. Voted selrahc two times, voting records etc, so saw no reason to jump in on the craziness.
If I was gonna play seriously I would do a review of all guys and give village/scum leans on them - worried that the 'easy' obvious targets will be cleared when I flip wolf... "
Lewwyn to Molach:"I was actually saying you were doing a good job :D "
Gaspar to Molach: "Yeah, you're easily the best lurker wolf, I dunno what you're saying Molach. You'll probably die before the game is out but you hid nicely giving us time to mislynch and have left absolutely no tracks. "
Meiz to Molach: "I think you should post more Molach, it is not certain you'll hang yet. But it will be if you keep quiet."
[Molach hangs, wolves win later on]

(My bolding - think this explains why I play wolf the way I do. Or rather, don't play.)

A bried rundown of WW 14 - Wolf with novice, we both gain good cover by bussing two wolves. Novice did the posting, I did the lurking behind the cover of the bus. Wolves win.

Do you ex-wolfbuddies think I am repeating these performances now? WW alpha centauri is most recent village me.

The QT seems damning to a few - but again I would have played it differently had I been a wolf. Yes, they would probably mean getting ichabod lynched instead of him. I could easily have made me seem better by changing flug's posts to make him seem scummier or perhaps just resigned before I posted them in the thread. If I replace the "self vote to save ichabod" post with "I can't really think of what I can post to save me now, have been somewhat overwhelmed by how this game runs" and I would be fully justified hanging him for doing a Stick. I could have done that even while rushing to post it. And I could have 'gone to bed' instead of rushing it out too, and gotten wolf-thread feedback on how alter the posts there in the best possible way for team wolf.
Anyway it is real, and I have nothing to hide.

Also Lewwyn stated that I have very little content - mabye my explanations haven't been good enough, but there is the whole QT to consider, my defense posts last night after nightkills which also include some reads. Recap of those posts
Serdoa: Strong village lean
Ichabod: Strong village lean (his posting in the night felt very honest to me)
Gazglum: Wolf lean
Gaius: Slight village lean

---
New stuff today:
Just took a read through the thread again, up to the flug-lynch. And I do seem suspicious there, hardly a wonder that I got votes against me near the end. Seeming very reluctant to share info with the village. If lynch had been half an hour later I think I would have been in real danger. Hm.
Anyway, two things. First this by Gaspar:

Brick - there are some players I'm very good at telling their alignment. The rest, crapshoot for me. Ichabod is definitely one of them. I'm not getting a read on him right now oddly because he's been under so much pressure. But I'd lean innocent.

If all Bricks voters came to Bigger, we'd have a much better lynch candidate, I think than either of the two on the block. I'm still committed to voting flug to break an Ichabod tie if flug doesn't show to defend himself, however.

I'll definately give Bigger a pass for a while based on this. While, obviously, it _could_ be distancing, sometimes there is wine in front of you after all. I think we pursure other targets.

More strikingly -
Gazglum votes Ichabod at 21:59 - putting him to the lead. Then out of the blue, Ryan saves Ichabod, also at 21:59. Ryan voted flug at 21:58, so noone could have foreseen that he would change vote later on. Gaspar did notthing in the time between these two votes (I do not know how long that was, perhaps someone was updating the thread could give an idea?) Anyway, even if Gaspar said he would save Ichabod he would have a VERY easy out - didn't see it in time.
I propose that Gazglum and Gaspar planned this to get Ichabod lynched rather than flug, and even to give Gaspar good village cred - willingness to save poor Ichabod.

Anyway, I'm voting to lynch Gazglum today. (Re-vote for emphasis)

[Serdoa]

@Serdoa uhm you aren't really the best person to talk about vig-shots ;

Rowain, I believe that everyone can learn. Appearantly though I am the only one believing in that. And appearantly one also is not allowed to comment on something if he himself isn't doing it better. I wonder, why do we have so much discussions about soccer? I doubt that even 1% of the people complaining about the players are playing better than those.

Or do put it more clearly: Just because I sucked ages ago as Vig does neither mean that I have not learned from the criticism received nor should it mean that I am never ever again allowed to point out that someone did use his vig-action in an imo suboptimal or hard to understand way.

Also, just because I suck does not mean that Meiz (or anyone else) gets a free pass. Heck, I am also pointing out that people have tunnel-vision. I don't believe I have tunnel-vision except for the waterbat-lynch in WW19, but no point arguing about that.

Oh come on do you all really think this was such an elaborate setup? Lets think this through. For this to work if this was a scum plan

1) I have to be scum, to make the tasunke post to get him to the top of the lynch list so meiz can shoot him.

I know that later on in your post you also look at it from the point of you not being scum, but I really was surprised when I read that post and it started with "For this to work if this was a scum plan I have to be scum". That makes absolutely no sense. You can easily have been going for Tasunke anyhow and Meiz just took the opportunity presenting itself. Which would again just explain why he changed his stance so quickly on Tasunke. So this whole part of the post is pointless and you even write yourself later on that it is preposterous. Why post it in that case? Seems for me more like the try to make sure to point out that you can't be a wolf - in a rather akward way if you were indeed a villager.

Plus if you consider the meta; giving a wolf a day kill? That reeks of imbalance. So does an SK having it. A survivor could have it, but they win with village anyways so that's not something to be scared of, and of course village is fine.

If what Meiz states is true (he can only vig the highest voted player) then it doesn't seem imbalanced even for a wolf. But anyhow, I normally try not to get mixed up in meta, so this point in itself isn't very telling for me. We have no clue about 95% of the roles in this game. What is imbalanced or not is impossible to tell at this point imo.

So I'm just not really seeing this case on the Meiz conspiricy being valid. It feels more crazy than Nerve Stapling ever was.

And this last part of your post is just a try to get some dirt thrown at those suspecting Meiz without having to actually state it outright. Btw: I do consider that you might be a wolf and Meiz a villager and that you just try to gain cover by defending a villager.

[BRickAstley]

I mentioned tat part about if I was wolf cause that is what I felt the logical conclusion would be if this was all planned, which I don't think it was.

And I'm just pissed at Ichabod for pissing on me like every post I make

Imma shut up and cool off a bit here

[pindicator]

Azza, i'm not too familiar with your character. What is the flavor basis for your post restriction?

70%

[BRickAstley]

He is a giant walking green penis that walks behind you, hisses, and blows up

[novice]

Imma shut up and cool off a bit here

He is a giant walking green penis that walks behind you, hisses, and blows up