WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Azza]

Meiz, I don't understand what you're saying there - it looks like you've got NOvice down as voting Tasunke, not Brick

He appears to be saying Novice puts a vote on Tasunke for distancing. When Tasunke rockets into the lead, he jumps off, and this is what makes novice suspicious.

Is this correct Meiz?

[Lewwyn]

Meiz, I don't understand what you're saying there - it looks like you've got NOvice down as voting Tasunke, not Brick

The two vote counts that Meiz has up there show that Novice was first then later Tas gets tied for the lead and then soon after Tas gets to 7 votes. THEN novice jumps of Tasunke.

[Meiz]

Meiz, I don't understand what you're saying there - it looks like you've got NOvice down as voting Tasunke, not Brick

He appears to be saying Novice puts a vote on Tasunke for distancing. When Tasunke rockets into the lead, he jumps off, and this is what makes novice suspicious.

Is this correct Meiz?

Yes

[Qgqqqqq]

Sorry for being absent, I've kept up, but not contributed while focussing on the pbem map.
Anyway, I don't really feel any evil vibes from novice, he hasn't been playing well but doesn't feel evil either. So mostly null on him.
I really an persuaded by ichabods defence, I think he's being a bit weird but not scummy. His double take on gazglum is suspicious though.
I definitely think that meiz is worth lynching, and am not sure. why people were so willing to clear him. I do think it can wait though.
The case I think we should pursue is one that (it seems? Can we get a vote count?) has mostly dropped off the radar, and yet I think is definitely worth pursuing - molachs.
See we've mostly left molach behind recently, amid the novice/meiz cases and counter cases and I suppose I'm guilty of that too, but now that my other suspicions have been executed, serdoa'd and ignored (tasunke meiz and GM respectively) Id like to return to my initial suspect, who has done nothing to redeem himself today - he's posted no original thoughts (I'm not sure he's even posted a vote!) except meta stuff about an insane gazglum/Ryan/gaspar conspiracy theory.
This from someone who says they've been posting regularly and plan to continue doing so.
Molach has barely posted since he dropped off the lynch toplist, and I think the events are related - he's happy to lurk if he gets no attention, simply posting about stuff rather then contributing and, once more, staying aloof while doing so.
Tldr lets look at a molach lynch again.

Of the other candidates, id!probably vote bigger first them gazglum/azza then novice.
If I don't get any traction I'll reasses one of them in the morning.

[Gazglum]

Pindicator says:

I want to say Ichabod is scum, b/c his attacks have been so scattered. But if he is, then he's playing the worst I've ever seen Ichabod play. Actually, he's not playing great as a villager. He's just scattershot and everywhere in his thinking and accusations; I would expect a wolf Ichabod to be a lot more precise and measured. Honestly, it's just gut feeling on him, but I feel good enough about it to not vote him.

Is it the worst wolf play though? The New Ichabod has gone from having half a dozen votes on him to three? And his attack on me, followed by a dignified retreat, is pretty reminiscent of his probe against Pindicator Day 1.

But I don’t think Ichabod is going to hang today, and he’s probably been under the most pressure of anybody in the game so far without cracking and breaking down into a flood of wolf tells. So I’m going to look elsewhere for now.


@Novice – I just…don’t know. I don’t know Novice’s usual style, I’ve heard arguments for both sides and I’m not fully convinced either way. I’m uncertain and so I don’t want to speculate more at the moment without doing a mammoth read through of his posts, which I don’t have time to do.


@ Meiz – I can see this is still being debated, can I add an emotional point? Imagine if Meiz is village, and we lynch him ON THE DAY THAT HE KILLED A WOLF FOR US. If I was in his shoes I would feel pretty crappy about that. I think we can afford to spend a day clapping him on the back, it’s not like there aren’t other suspects out there.


@ Molach – I don’t like the way that the MOlach pressure just faded because time moved on. It seems like the lynch mentatlity is cyclical, and there is pressure to always be moving to a new target. Just because Molach was first in the sights, doesn’t mean it’s now a bad case. His interaction with Flug was weird then, its weird now. Molach is my second suspect.


@ Gaius Marius. Gaius I just…don’t trust. And Gaius, if you are a villager I’m sorry because this must seem like a pretty unfair and personal crusade. But Qqqqq seems to agree. You were comfortable on the Flug train all Day 1, not drawing attention to yourself, and today there hasn’t been much of anything. You also are a lot less emotional than me, like this post late Day 1:

Even now that I've read Ichabod's argument, I'm still not convinced that gazglum is scum. I think he defended well, saying he was looking for different leads based on the flug voters, even if he did find flug himself suspicious. I agree that the vote switch at the end of D1 was a bit strange, but I don't think that's enough to convict him. – no mention of me attacking him!

It might just be different minds, but I can’t quite believe your Gentleman Gaius persona. I attacked you hard Day 1, and you respond with a “yes, I think Gazglum made some fair points”. No mention that I was gunning for you, no quip or barb or insult or apology or any emotional engagement at all. In your shoes as a villager, I would at least have mentioned my attack. In you shoes as a wolf, I might not have, because I didn’t want to remind anyone about it.

And if it turns out I’m attacking a villager for being more high-minded than me, again, I apologise.

Your major interaction Day 2 was that squabble with Qqqqq, which I’d probably rate a draw. You voted for Bigger based on him being too close to Brick, but that wasn’t your call was it? You were quoting Brick himself saying that.

Again, it’s not so much what you’ve done, it’s just the vibe, to quote a great Australian movie. More specificially, it’s the pattern of your posting. I feel like both your days have gone like this,
- Friendly talky Gaius, a helpful member of the village
- Gaius attacked! Gaius defends himself, and does a perfectly reasonable job
- But then Gaius vanishes for 24 hours, perhaps because of real life or perhaps not. But both times the anti-Gaius sentiment is left with no fuel and so sputters out.

I don’t want you to fade away again, I want to hear more from you. And so I’m swinging back to Gaius for now.

[Molach]

You're worng, and I'm at work now so can't elaborate.

Btw you can tell because I've turned off invisible mode - I went invis a couple of days before getting my role PM. (I think when my char choice was confirmed, then I went to user CP and Turned it on after changing avatar and title. After getting the PM I went visible again.
I've nothing to hide.

This time around, anyway.

I've spent about 2 hours each evening posting, and been checking up thread when I could outside that time. I've written more words that you, Q.

Tas & Gas both list me as scummy.

What do you think about my post concerning Lewwyn and the QT? It might have been bad play, but wolfish?
Anything else about me but that I'm lurking?

And I'm happy with Gazglum for now, will be on & active for lynch tonight because wife is away but still think his case is worth considering. Today he first doesn't know what a SK is, then gives advice about why we shouldn't hunt for them a few hours later.

[Molach]

'You' in last post is Qgqqqq, not Gazglulm, btw.

[Rowain]

Stay awhile and listen
I really have difficulties to see the Bigger case right here. Not to mention that lynching someone becaus ehe might or might not be a SK which might or might not even exist is not the best way. Yes the deathc of Gaspar does make the existance of a SK very probable but still we don't know it assured. But we do know that there are evil players so our time is far better spent hunting them.

Some Questions:

@Pindi: If I understand you right you have Bigger in the village-camp but vote for him because he might be the SK. Really?

@Azza: After the easy Molach-vote now a jump on a forming Bigger-waggon. I don't like that.

@Jkaen: Didn't you regain your memory meanwhile? So what are you? village or scum?

@Ichabod Do you know anything about the memory your master regained?

[novice]

Haven't read your posts yet, Lewwyn, but I remember the same MO in that game where you were a wolf. Quiet day 1, day 2 come with a magnum opus on some player.

Curious.

Should I be worried?

I'll sleep in it.

I don't like this by Lewwyn either. Especially since the magnum opuses(?) have been on Molach (town lean) and me (innocent). This is indeed Lewwyn's wolf MO.

[novice]

Eh, Ichabod can have my vote for his Gazglum antics.

Well, I reread the thread and Gazglum didn't sound that suspicious anymore. I thought I made myself clear in that point.

Crazy novice .

Yeah you said clearly that you didn't find him suspicious anymore. What I'm wondering though is what you found so condemning at the time that you stated boldly that you would get him lynched for it on day 2.