WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[LeChuck]

Wow lewwyn. I owe you a fukn apology.. omg, I cant believe you were right. You are not letting me live this down are you?

Out of respect for the newly-deceased, I feel I should point out that you wave your sword like a dairy farmer.

[LeChuck]

I wish I could stay in character the entirety of the remainder of the game, but I fear I will be dead this next night so I need to make the most of this day.

Anyway I tried to get people to scum hunt yesterday. To look at new suspects hopefully the death of bigger and lewwyn will motivate people to actually look around.

People I'm suspicious of:

Azza
Meiz
Qg
Pindi

-I think Azza has played quiet and scummy. I think in particular the voting I pointed out at the end of the day and the inconsistency there is highly suspect.

-Meiz is on my SK suspect list. You all wanted to lynch me because there was no night kill N2. Well if you go back and look, there was in fact 3 kills for the entire second Day/night it just happened that one kill was during the day. What if the SK gets a kill everyday and it can be either the Day or night kill? Think about who was killed. Tasunke. If he's scum, great cover. If he's village, its understandable. It would allow Meiz the chance to kill off someone without a night action that could be interfered with or doubled up on.

*DO NOT GET LOCKED IN ON MEIZ FOR THIS META SPECULATION! I just want people to consider this and then look back at his posts to see if they are scummy. I actually think yesterday was interesting because Meiz felt a bit quiet to me. Additionally I think he stayed on Pindi (even though he said why not give Lew a chance to prove his ability) in an effort to stay clear of the lynch. If he were SK he would know that I'm not SK and therefore most likely a villager. I also think that Meiz genuinely believes Pindi to be scum so he stayed on him.

-Qg has been cheerleading in my opinion. I need to go back through his posts again but the fact that I was able to use my ability when he was taunted makes me think that either:
1) Qg is the scum roleblocker
2) Scum don't have a roleblocker
3) Scum are dumb
4) Scum are smart and wanted to frame pindi by not blocking
5) My ability can't be blocked, however my ability is specified as an active use ability so I really think it can be blocked.

*Again while the meta favors Qg as scum. Look to his posts and voting before voting for him.

-Pindi has been so hard for me to pin down... I can't tell if its because of the post restriction changing the way he posts in terms of timing, length and frequency or because he's scum. Regardless I think he stays on radar, but I think all three people I have listed above him are better lynches.


Now before I vote I would REALLY like to hear from some other people about their scum lists and their thoughts on my scum list. In particular I'd really like to hear from Ryan and Serdoa who, now that both bigger and lewwyn have died, and since the SK killed while my ability was in use lending even more credence to the idea that its not some elaborate SK escape since being able to do it while also killing seems over powered, have lost both their top suspects. Maybe now you can trust me, and possibly we can actually work together because as I said before you two are the ones I trust most.

[LeChuck]

I think this fake power role showed how unresonable Pindicator's claimed PR is. It's totally unfair and unfun. I doubt Uberfish would have done it. Heck, Pindicator can't even change his vote after his 10th post. C'mon, that's hardly believable.

Well Jkaen's role was unbelievable too. And mine obviously didn't engender a lot of faith. I think that makes pindi's post restriction possible especially if he has a useful power to counter it.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't have a active ability, therefore I wouldn't have targeted ichabod.
GG icha, bigger and Lewwyn ().
Id like to examine Ryan more closely today.
Ryan has a) given a null tell the first 2 days - his actions were unremarkable day 1 (IMO, so I didn't get an overly scum of village tell)and then disappeared on day 2.
b) places a thought dump night 2/day3 before lashing out at bigger when he argues over his tells
and c) distracts day 4 until it is basically solely focussing on the Lewwyn case.
Smile the rest of his play is largely null (with village lean from night 3) I think his attacks on Lewwyn bear further focus.
Firstly they are in scam benefit because (largely due to Ryan's aggressive pursuing, though of course aided by circumstance) the day was essentially distracted till that is the only issue remembered.
Secondly it is in scam benefit because it shifted the broad benefit of the meta speculation and hunting into looking for the serial killer, which is bad because it ignores potential scummy exchanges, and makes it a LOT easier for scum to convincingly hunt
And thirdly it is in scum benefit because it forced (the equivalent of) a commuter to claim.

While Im not sure wether Ryan himself is scum, his actions have been very broadly helping the scum.
I also find Ryan's comments on mafia play very telling. (Ill fetch them when off phone).
Basically Ryan is saying that one should ignore tells in posts, and focus entirely on the meta.
Maybe it only matters to me, but my debut in werewolf was ww15 which basically saw a village destroyed by inane meta.
Moreover this as a defence is very weak (it was basically his response to the attack that the Lewwyn case was weak), as it simultaneously gives him an easy out to using meta for attacks (I.e. avoiding scjmhinting) and allows him an out upon Lewwyn s clearance (he is not needing to articulate a thing - as Lewwyn pointed out earlier, it is simple to devise meta that says whatever you want it to in a role madness game, and therefore the necessary effort is minimal. He also can't be faulted for the case, as it can "make sense" even if it is found wrong.
In summary, I think the village should look closer at Ryan today.

[Azza]

I'm amazed it was this close. I think Azza tried to kill me off at the end there, but didn't know pindi's bad format vote would count.

After I revealed Azza says all of this:

Molach

I feel Lewwyn's claim could be part of a SK role, but at the very least it's verifiable tonight, and I don't think he'd have made it up.

Btw: Meiz, Azza, any reason you guys are not even interested in talking with Lewwyn about his claim? I mean since when have we started not even questioning stuff like that and just accepting it as soon as it is posted?

This role is very easy for him to prove. I'm willing to give him a night to do so.

Basically, I think we learn more by letting him try and prove his claim tonight.

Then he disappears, only to come back at lynch time and say:

I'm here, just caught up with the thread.

Lewwyn has more things going for him being anti-town than Jkaen IMO, so I'm going with Lewwyn.

Really? I think you just wanted to get me out of the way.

Given the choice between you and Molach, I would've stayed on Molach. But the case on Jkaen was entirely meta, so I changed my vote to the target whose case was more convincing.

thats easy. azza was in Lewwyn's crosshairs, he wasn't in jkaen's crosshairs. jkaen is also easier to manipulate.

From memory, I've been in Lewwyn's crosshairs for a while now. If I'm scum, why haven't I tried to night kill him? That's how I played 17 and 19, I night kill my threats.

Aw damnit
GG JKaen.

BTW my and biggers votes were total xposts - I was trying to catch up but had to go with 2-3 pages left to the day.
Freaky coincidental timing tho.

I'm impressed with how I'm tune we've been today though.
I dislike the azza last second vote, and think he's a strong candidate for tomorrow.

I kinda dislike pindocators list of candidates - feels a lot like scum setting up a train for the next few days.

I would've switched my vote earlier but I was asleep while it became Jkaen v Lewwyn for the lynch.

Wow lewwyn. I owe you a fukn apology.. omg, I cant believe you were right. You are not letting me live this down are you?

His power was proved to be correct. That still doesn't prove him to be a townie.


Molach is our best bet of hitting scum IMO.

[Azza]

I don't have a active ability, therefore I wouldn't have targeted ichabod.
GG icha, bigger and Lewwyn ().
Id like to examine Ryan more closely today.
Ryan has a) given a null tell the first 2 days - his actions were unremarkable day 1 (IMO, so I didn't get an overly scum of village tell)and then disappeared on day 2.
b) places a thought dump night 2/day3 before lashing out at bigger when he argues over his tells
and c) distracts day 4 until it is basically solely focussing on the Lewwyn case.
Smile the rest of his play is largely null (with village lean from night 3) I think his attacks on Lewwyn bear further focus.
Firstly they are in scam benefit because (largely due to Ryan's aggressive pursuing, though of course aided by circumstance) the day was essentially distracted till that is the only issue remembered.
Secondly it is in scam benefit because it shifted the broad benefit of the meta speculation and hunting into looking for the serial killer, which is bad because it ignores potential scummy exchanges, and makes it a LOT easier for scum to convincingly hunt
And thirdly it is in scum benefit because it forced (the equivalent of) a commuter to claim.

While Im not sure wether Ryan himself is scum, his actions have been very broadly helping the scum.
I also find Ryan's comments on mafia play very telling. (Ill fetch them when off phone).
Basically Ryan is saying that one should ignore tells in posts, and focus entirely on the meta.
Maybe it only matters to me, but my debut in werewolf was ww15 which basically saw a village destroyed by inane meta.
Moreover this as a defence is very weak (it was basically his response to the attack that the Lewwyn case was weak), as it simultaneously gives him an easy out to using meta for attacks (I.e. avoiding scjmhinting) and allows him an out upon Lewwyn s clearance (he is not needing to articulate a thing - as Lewwyn pointed out earlier, it is simple to devise meta that says whatever you want it to in a role madness game, and therefore the necessary effort is minimal. He also can't be faulted for the case, as it can "make sense" even if it is found wrong.
In summary, I think the village should look closer at Ryan today.

That's very interesting. Last night you were suspicious of pindicator and myself, now you're suspecting Ryan with no mention of either of us.

Why the change of heart?

[Qgqqqqq]

I found something suspicious on pindicater =/= I found him most suspicious. I was merely noting it.

My primary targets are still Molach and you, but I don't want to get stuck on anyone.

[Ryan]

I found something suspicious on pindicater =/= I found him most suspicious. I was merely noting it.

My primary targets are still Molach and you, but I don't want to get stuck on anyone.

It am really demotivated after yesterday. I can't believe I was so wrong -.-

[Ryan]

Ignore the quote forgot to delete it.

[Serdoa]

Q, I disagree on all your points on Ryan. But that would be fine. What is not fine is that you try to paint him as scum by putting mostly foward arguments how his actions helped scum. But that was in a way he himself couldn't even know that it would do that ("makes a communter claim" - wtf, how was he supposed to know that?). Your whole case on him, taking away all the smearing is basically

"He attacked Lewwyn on D4 for meta-reasons". Thats it, there is nothing more to your "case" than that. You sure made it sound a lot more, but all that other points you wrote down can be summarized by "Lazy players could hid behind the discussion around Lewwyn". Which in itself should make you rather look at those players that hid behind it. You blame Ryan for distracting the discussion when NO other case was made. Jkaen was lynched because you all decided that his claim for a vanilla role can't be true - A META REASON, nothing else. Exactly what you now use as explanation for why we should lynch Ryan, because he concentrated on meta. Are you even realizing how hypocritical that is?

Qgqqqq

The case against Q in short:

- attacks Ryan with very weak reasons
- complains about "meta" distracting the village D4 while he himself lynched someone just for meta-reasons

I certainly will dig deeper into your posts today Q, but right now, your whole play smells wolfish.

@Lewwyn

It seems you are indeed a completely new character. I used my post restriction that you have to say nice things about me on you last night but it didn't work - and wasn't expended again. Would you still say nice things about me today?