Serdoa, the case against jkaen (for me at least) was nothing of the sort.
It was that he had a) been playing scummy since he recovered his memory, and b) attempted to slip a smoking gun comment past the village - I.e using his own case to justify his attack and then saying that it was the village consensus (while showing his disagreement - which seemed a lot like shifting blame)
With that point removed lets look at the case on serdoa
- he attacks Q for weak reasons
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(February 14th, 2013, 03:16)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Serdoa, the case against jkaen (for me at least) was nothing of the sort.
It was that he had a) been playing scummy since he recovered his memory, and b) attempted to slip a smoking gun comment past the village - I.e using his own case to justify his attack and then saying that it was the village consensus (while showing his disagreement - which seemed a lot like shifting blame)
Not going to help use here anymore, but I'd really like to understand: What of Jkaens play was scummy? I asked that the last day already and never got an answer.
As for the "smoking gun" comment. I didn't ever follow up on it despite it being directed at me. Why? Because he never used his own case to justify his attack as you claim - he believed in his own case, he wanted to make clear that it had weight (despite it not doing that). He was energetic, even psyched up because he believed to have found a scum. Thats why he posted his smoking gun comment imo.
Firstly I disagree that that was my case - I think its relatively easy to see that though I am not particularly elequont ( and tend to keep on clarifying what I mean) there is more of substance, so I dislike that you simply quote that. In the off change that you haven't seen it, the point is
A) his actions were pro - scum. No this does not mean he is specifically scum, but I think one can honestly say that the results of it are clear, and whether scum or not means we should look at those hiding behind the lynch (thank you for this insight - oh wait isn't that why we lynched jkaen? ), but when an action is pro scum then it should be recognised as such.
Secondly you say that he didn't distract the discussion because there was none. Um don't you realise that the reason we had little discussion is BECAUSE he was distracting it
Thirdly yes he didn't know that Lewwyn was a commuter (this applies to you as well). Remember that once he'd claimed (in a very testable format) you didn't stop the lynch, even to hokd off for tomorrow - no you wanted him lybched regardless!
Oh and yes I concede that the commuter claim was badly written, I was not expressing what I intended to express at all.
Finally very weak posts actively trying to stop scum hunting - I'm not going to explain this further as id like your opinion on it (you clearly either dismissed it or didn't read it earlier).
Just to add, could you look at this objectively serdoa (in no way a criticism of your current approach, I know I can get caught up in it too) rather the dismissing it because it is opposing you (and in particular your stance on Lewwyn).
I feel that half the reason your attacking my posts is because you see them as a criticism of your own play, and would like it if this gets an objective response ratherthen a emotional one.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Xpost.
I found jkaens play scummy because it changed half way through - until his memory he was playing well. scumhunting too - while after it he stopped scumhunting (IMO), became more allowing the village to lynch itself.
I disagree with the smoking fun comment - that's just not how I saw it at all.
I saw a scum underlying his own hunting, making sure the world knew while trying to highlight it as a candidate at a time where he clearly thought he was in danger of being lynched.
He didn't use it to justify it - he used it to explain his vote, as though he planned to mark it on someone.
Sorry I've got to go to sleep, so won't be able to respond for a while.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
It seems you are indeed a completely new character. I used my post restriction that you have to say nice things about me on you last night but it didn't work - and wasn't expended again. Would you still say nice things about me today?
It's fine as long as we catch the scum and the village wins in the end.
I think the case is good on Q.
I also think the case on Meiz is good.
Meiz killed Tasunke in the middle of Day 2. This proves he is not a wolf but I think he may be an SK. I think that the SK gets 1 kill per day/night cycle. Meiz used his kill on Tasunke in the day so there was no second night kill. It was a safe kill as SK because A) he suspected Tas of being scum and B) If Tasunke was a villager it wouldn't have been an unreasonable kill C) This way there were no 2 night kills and he could cause more confusion.
Now Reading back through the posts I realized that Serdoa swapped all actions between Meiz and Novice. Novice died meaning that Meiz was the sole night target. If the wolves tried to kill Meiz and failed due to Serdoa's swap that would make sense. But then why didn't Meiz get nightkilled the following night, or the night following that night? There were two kills a night! If Meiz isn't the SK then that means there would be two factions ignoring Meiz who in fact was already being pretty much confirmed as Innocent. N3 I can understand since both factions would be focused on Brick and Ichabod, but N4 they killed Ichabod and Bigger? Bigger's messages to Ichabod were pretty villagery but they didn't confirm him the way that killing scum would. No I posit that Meiz is the SK and therefore there is only one faction hunting Meiz.
Now, I have been reading through his posts and honestly After Day 2 he REALLY relaxes his scum hunting. He doesn't really attack anyone with any degree of fire. Almost all his posts are 1 or two lines. There isn't any real URGENCY to his posts. He is not invested in the scumhunt! To me he reads like someone watching the game and cheerleading. I do not think he is actively scumhunting because he doesn't want to draw too much attention to himself.
After Gaius is lynched he posts:
(February 7th, 2013, 12:19)Meiz Wrote: @Brick, I feel of course like shit for getting our Jailkeeper killed, but I don't think Gaius had much going on that spoke for his innocence. At the time it seemed so strange for Ichabod to switch away from Gaius when it didn't make much sense to me (Gaius was close to lynch as well, with time left). Ichabod had posted suspicions on Gaius, but none for Matt. I admit I was also high from the Tasunke kill, and too over confident (should know it's never that easy). But from my POV it was totally random lynch of Matt vs. Ichabod, but with Matt's switch to Gaius, I still had a chance to make sure that the other suspect of mine is lynched. There was no time to count who wins the tie.
It is one of Meiz's longer posts. In fact it is his 4th longest post (not counting vote count posts) since Day 2. It is not a long post but compared to all the lack of content small ball, low profile posts he's written this is up there. But the thing that bothers me is I think this post is overwrought and constructed. I feel like it was heavily edited. Look at the first line: "I feel of course like shit for getting our Jailkeeper killed, but". I think in particular the "of course" is awkwardly placed and feels added in as an afterthought.
On day 3 Meiz votes for Pindi and then Matt. He starts with pindi a one liner with basically no good reason. Pindi responds and Meiz posts on of his longer posts in defense:
The first vote, I did it because Ichabod voted Matt over Gaius, and I wanted to see how he reacts to my Gaius vote. He revoted Gaius, but also posted this: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid338493
That caused alarm bells for me. Didn't understand why he was willing to vote him, but still saying how it wasn't really a good case. I'd expected he'd have some sort of idea behind his votes at that point, and it still feels odd that he didn't.
Rest of the day I spent on getting novice or Ichabod lynched, with Gaius coming in third place. You could say I was happy to lynch any of those. You're right to say that I was protecting Matt. At the time it felt right, because I had nothing to go against him. I didn't think his meta-vote for Molach and unvote soon after told anything significant.
You're saying I preferred saving of Matt over lynching of Ichabod, but lynching of Ichabod was not an option after Matt switched.
You said "You assumed Ichabod would swap to save himself, but he never did". I actually did, but I don't remember saying anything like that out loud. I was happily voting Ichabod, before Matt switched.
I feel like I've explained this before, but maybe it was unclear.
Basically the entire post is defending he may have voted for Pindi but he isn't laying a case against him. Instead one of his 3 longest posts since Day 3 is defensive.
Later Serdoa reveals the swap and Meiz's response is to vote for Matt:
(February 8th, 2013, 11:08)Meiz Wrote: If they tried to kill me, not sure if Pind-wolf would have prepared / posted case against me. Just guessing, but maybe Mattimeo is better target first.
Serdoa, I still shot a wolf, so it couldn't be that big of a surprise... But it's done.
Great reasoning Meiz!
Matt is lynched.
Day 3 Meiz goes back to the pindi well even though he's just stated maybe pindi isn't scum:
(February 11th, 2013, 06:04)Meiz Wrote: The reason I've asked about Pind is that he's one of the few players left, that haven't really given the "hmm, he looks town" feeling. Call it a vibe, since there is not much evidence from votes, we haven't actually lynched a wolf yet. On the day I shot Tasunke, he had collected a lot of votes quickly, and we get to:
Ok, maybe he's better at reading him than the rest of us, but it's also possible that he in fact knew it and collected town points. A lot of people thought novice was acting strange, but Pind knew better, without really pointing out details for the rest of us. I don't remember neither novice or Ichabod having any good cases on day 2.
So if you have some villager tells on Pind, please point them out. Pindicator for now
Now this is his second longest post and it is an attack of sorts. The tasunke thing is a bit of a no tell I think. Then he finds pindi suspicious for thinking novice is innocent, which I think is a bit of a reach considering We all have innocent reads on different people. But whats interesting is that he then goes onto say maybe he's just reading him better? SO his suspicion is nullified there. Seems a bit waffling here. And finally the cherry on top, crowd sourcing.
I'll be honest I responded to this post by saying I have no villager tells on Pindi and voting for him, but I was specifially looking for reactions at this point and pindi was not at the top of my list. He's still in the middle for me but Meiz doesn't look anywhere else. He hasn't looked during Day 3 and here on Day 4 that trend is continuing.
He later votes for Azza, "because no one else is voting for pindi" But later goes back to pindi with his biggest post since Day 2:
(February 12th, 2013, 15:31)Meiz Wrote: I haven't lost interested, just that I've just had a weekend at our cabin, birthday + 3 months old child to keep me busy enough. I fully admit I lost interested in the "that and that and that happened so he's the sk" - discussion, which was the theme of the day (sorry). My play has been quite simple, who has given village leans and who's left. Some points on people left:
Ichabod - Scanned innocent
Bigger - Gaspar's attacks seemed layout for future day 2 attacks.
Serdoa - Tries really hard, sounds villager Serdoa. His wolf game was different. Revealed his change of targets with novice and me, which gave me some town points. Later attacked me, which seems odd thing to do, if the reveal was to get on my good side.
Qgqqqqq - His attack on me after Tasunke execution, but before the results makes me think he's not scum.
Lewwyn - I believe the most likely explanation is that he did not kill on night 3, due to Ichabod's taunt. Can prove his ability next night. If his ability makes uberfish post he's town aligned, then we know he was that until the switch at least, so his suspicions have been genuine.
Molach - Had excellent chance to get good village points from the flug - case, and I think wolf would have gone for it. "I wouldn't do this as scum" arguments are generally things that wolves avoid. More quiet on his wolf games.
Ryan - General village vibes, seems genuinely frustrated (still wish he wouldn't be so over dramatic).
Azza - Very little amount of posts, like usual. Total mystery to me.
Jkaen - I believe he started not knowing his role. If he'd kept quiet about it, we'd never know anything about it, so what's the point? Possible traitor role, which would also explain his no power, as there is already a twist in his role. I believe he started not knowing his alignment. Pindicator - His posts contain a lot of content, but I really haven't got villager vibes from them. Impossible to explain, gut screams he's potential wolf or SK. I consider him a good player and think he can make himself look good, when knowing the right answers. Tasunke concentrating on his post restriction and appearing to not understand it, bugs me. Still think his Tasunke vote was rushed to get on the train before it would be too late. Disagreed with his targets quite often, now votes Jkaen but switches to Molach, which would fit with Jkaen being on scum side.
I wouldn't be surprised if I have wolves or SK in my village lean list, but these are my current thoughts and I'm inclined to vote people at the bottom of the list.
Too bad its just a list with no insights or any real suspicions. This comes right around where I was in danger of being lynched too. Meiz apparently has Me in his innocent list (wonder why he's having a hard time thinking I'm the SK) and then Jkaen is right at the bottom of his list. He votes for pindi on what he knows is a wasted vote and avoids making any judgment calls on me or Jkaen.
And what is this about Jkaen:
Quote:Jkaen - I believe he started not knowing his role. If he'd kept quiet about it, we'd never know anything about it, so what's the point? Possible traitor role, which would also explain his no power, as there is already a twist in his role. I believe he started not knowing his alignment.
I mean could you be ANY less specific about a guy who is tied for first place on the block???
That list is his longest post since Day 2, his other two longer posts were a defense and a halfhearted attack on Pindi. Meiz is keeping his head down. He is not scumhunting anymore (doesn't want to draw more attention from the wolves for night kill, and doesn't want to kill off all the scum). There is little to no content in all his posts, he is not invested in the lynches and he is skating by. I believe we have our SK.
MEIZ
Burn down every island in the Caribbean if you have to, but bring me my bride!... and more slaw! Curse the villains, they never give you enough slaw with these value meals.
Looking at the players left and filtering out people I've got village lean on, I'm left with:
Azza Pindicator
Sorry if that's too simple scum hunting method for you, I've always been better at finding villagers than finding wolves.
The way you paint me black does not really speak in your favor. Just brushing off my message with "not having insights", despite me writing very clearly why I find Pind suspicious etc. You don't even comment on the message where I said the reason for my quiet play, you must have read it to make this big case against me.
), but when an action is pro scum then it should be recognised as such.
