WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[LeChuck]

No I posit that Meiz is the SK and therefore there is only one faction hunting Meiz.

Why would the SK kill player, who is suspected as SK? Why would wolves kill a player, who can be accused as SK and day lynched?

You mean yourself or me? In your case no one was suspecting you of being the SK until today. And don't say people were suspecting you of being SK the last day because they weren't.

As for myself your argument here feeds right into why you didn't vote for me yesterday. If I was blocked in the night I get lynched as SK. Better to keep me alive yesterday without drawing attention to yourself.

[Azza]

I believe, looking at the night kills, there's a good argument against Lewwyn being the SK.

If I'm SK Lewwyn, I know that Azza is a prime lynch target. 3 other people stated their desire to lynch me, being Bigger, Q and Molach. Killing these players weakens the voting power against me. Instead, it makes more sense to target a Pindicator, or a Serdoa, weaken the opposition to an Azza lynch. So there's no way, in my mind, Lewwyn would've killed Bigger last night.
On top of that, I don't believe Lewwyn would've killed Ichabod last night. Ichabod was confirmed village, yes, but his scum hunting wasn't particularly threatening, especially not towards Lewwyn. As SK, I'd expect Lewwyn to pick a target who is openly anti-Lewwyn.

Overall, I think this is a very strong argument in favour of Lewwyn's innocence.

[Meiz]

I recall hearing several times "he's probably not wolf, but could be SK". You yourself posted this: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid341840

I didn't vote for you because your claim could be verified, and I didn't have scum lean on you. Simple as that.

[Meiz]

Also, both Bigger and Ichabod were the ones thinking I'm innocent...

[LeChuck]

Looking at the players left and filtering out people I've got village lean on, I'm left with:

Azza
Pindicator

Sorry if that's too simple scum hunting method for you, I've always been better at finding villagers than finding wolves.

The way you paint me black does not really speak in your favor. Just brushing off my message with "not having insights", despite me writing very clearly why I find Pind suspicious etc. You don't even comment on the message where I said the reason for my quiet play, you must have read it to make this big case against me.

Really, very clearly! You very clearly wrote why you suspected him and then in the same post you wrote why it might not be him!

I assume in reference to the reason you are quiet is this:

I haven't lost interested, just that I've just had a weekend at our cabin, birthday + 3 months old child to keep me busy enough. I fully admit I lost interested in the "that and that and that happened so he's the sk" - discussion, which was the theme of the day (sorry). My play has been quite simple, who has given village leans and who's left.

Yeah okay but I'm referencing the play style since the end of Day 2. That is 7 days IRL days. It has been very consistent. Just enough to "stay involved" but not enough to actually contribute. Additionally I was pleading with people to post alternate thoughts on different people throughout the day. So to simply say the SK discussion was not interesting and so you didn't post isn't enough in my eyes. If that discussion wasn't interesting why didn't you press the discussion in another direction. Your vote on Pindicator came at the beginning of the day and as I've stated you didn't really make a solid case, instead passed on the buck to others. Then you disappeared only to reappear with a vote on Azza that was worse:

Since no one seems to be interested in voting Pind, Azza

Mainly due to villager reads I have from every other player except Pind and Azza.

That's what you gave us as your reasoning. Its the SAME reasoning you've begun to cart out for the lame list vote on pindictaor later at the end of that day and now again today as well. "Aw man guys! I'm just good at finding villagers! That's my thang!"


One other thing. You state that you're busy, you're not around, but you certainly react to things very quickly in thread. You reacted to my post here immediately and you also reacted immediately to my claim yesterday when you asked:

How does that fit to your character?

First is that the most relevant question and second this type of timely response happens often. You are watching the thread very closely and you have created an air of nonchalance but it belies just how much you are watching.

Don't think you can "Aw, shucks" your way out of these accusations.

[LeChuck]

I recall hearing several times "he's probably not wolf, but could be SK". You yourself posted this: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid341840

I didn't vote for you because your claim could be verified, and I didn't have scum lean on you. Simple as that.

Yes I posted this yesterday. When I was still the number 1 suspect for SK.

[LeChuck]

Also, both Bigger and Ichabod were the ones thinking I'm innocent...

Yeah its a shame Ichabod was also a confirmed villager (your kill) and Bigger was onto Q's case in his night messages to Ichabod. (Q's partner's kill while Q tried to roleblock me). I think Q and his partner were onto you as a possible SK and didn't want to kill (or waste a kill if you're immune) just yet.

[LeChuck]

For the sake of completeness I'm going to readdress you clearly explained thoughts on Pindicator again:

Pindicator - His posts contain a lot of content, but I really haven't got villager vibes from them. Impossible to explain, gut screams he's potential wolf or SK. I consider him a good player and think he can make himself look good, when knowing the right answers. Tasunke concentrating on his post restriction and appearing to not understand it, bugs me. Still think his Tasunke vote was rushed to get on the train before it would be too late. Disagreed with his targets quite often, now votes Jkaen but switches to Molach, which would fit with Jkaen being on scum side.

You state that Pindicator's content filled posts are not giving you villager vibes. Then you say its impossible to explain why. Super clear so far. Next: he's a good player who knows how to look good with the right timing. Still not really a great case. Tas being confused about the PR bugs you, ok. Thats clear. Then the bit about the voting.

For me this adds up to an okay to mediocre case on pindi. I don't think its extremely clear. I think its muddled and I think its hidden in the list. I think there are some fine points. And if you read my post that you linked to about you I said I believe you think Pindicator is scum. And I also think pindi has been a bit shifty.

Here's my problem. You really didn't push this with and degree of gusto. If you are the SK then having a case on Pindicator if he flips scum would not clear you of being the SK. My point is that you're not trying very hard to prove it. Today you voted for pindicator while saying "I've got village leans on everybody but these two." You didn't reiterate your case on pindi or try to make it even clearer or even try to put it in another separate post. Maybe you felt rushed to get something out to defend against me but its not like you put any weight behind your counter at me.

I do think pindi will be on the table later, but your consistent trend of posting is scummier than anything pindi has done in my eyes. and it also fits with the meta.

Also this:

I wouldn't be surprised if I have wolves or SK in my village lean list, but these are my current thoughts and I'm inclined to vote people at the bottom of the list.

Pindicator was at the bottom of your list. Next up was Jkaen. By your comment here we can understand that Jkaen was your second suspect? And yet with him on the block, an opportunity to vote for your second suspect, you decline to vote for him even though its clear that voting for pindicator was turning into a wasted vote in terms of actively deciding who got lynched.

So now I've addressed your clear case on pindicator as well as your statement as to why you are posting the way you have. I still think you're the SK.

[Serdoa]

Just to add, could you look at this objectively serdoa (in no way a criticism of your current approach, I know I can get caught up in it too) rather the dismissing it because it is opposing you (and in particular your stance on Lewwyn).
I feel that half the reason your attacking my posts is because you see them as a criticism of your own play, and would like it if this gets an objective response ratherthen a emotional one.

Q, I am looking at this without emotions. Yes, I am still not ok with you calling me a moronic asshole, but that has not bearing on the game. If I believe you are a villager I won't lynch you just because of that. And I don't let my look at what was written be blinded by that either. It simply is for me not understandable why you would of all people attack Ryan - and with an imo weak reasoning. That of course is up for debate and I certainly would like to hear what others think.

As for Lewwyn: Obviously I was wrong on him. Without doubt (well, besides a bastard GM what I don't think uberfish is) he was a villager. Heck, I was wrong on Ichabod and novice as well. I was right on Mattimeo and Jkaen. I would have been wrong on Gaspar and up to that point Tasunke.

Speaking of Tasunke: Lewwyn brought up something I had not thought about any more as I had considered Meiz innocent right after N2 and the results and only came around back later that he indeed could be the SK (something I thought right after his shot as well). Because the most damning part of Meizs play seems for me to be the shot on Tasunke. I mean, Meiz shoots Tasunke because he THINKS Tasunke could be a baddie. He isn't keeping that shot for later but acts on a hunch. Now compare that to the rest of his play, wavering back and forth, not taking ANY part in yesterdays lynch but very calmly voting pindicator, knowing it won't result in anything. Really? Thats the same guy that shot on D2 (!) just because of one post? I have a hard time believing that.

No I posit that Meiz is the SK and therefore there is only one faction hunting Meiz.

Why would the SK kill player, who is suspected as SK? Why would wolves kill a player, who can be accused as SK and day lynched?

Do you talk about Bigger?

Also, both Bigger and Ichabod were the ones thinking I'm innocent...

So you propose the SK and the wolves talked with each other about whom to kill to get rid of anyone thinking you are innocent?

Meiz

[Meiz]

You very clearly wrote why you suspected him and then in the same post you wrote why it might not be him!

You mean the "maybe he's better at reading novice" part? Which is basically: "It's possible he's villager that reads novice better then me, but I suspect he has a cheat sheet" - accusation. Not waterproof, but still an accusation. The way you accuse me atm is turn everything that person has done as a sign of guilt. I don't do that.

I assume in reference to the reason you are quiet is this:

I haven't lost interested, just that I've just had a weekend at our cabin, birthday + 3 months old child to keep me busy enough. I fully admit I lost interested in the "that and that and that happened so he's the sk" - discussion, which was the theme of the day (sorry). My play has been quite simple, who has given village leans and who's left.

Yeah okay but I'm referencing the play style since the end of Day 2. That is 7 days IRL days. It has been very consistent. Just enough to "stay involved" but not enough to actually contribute.

Remember that child part? He's been around more than from the last weekend. I'd never use that as an excuse to play quiet wolf/sk - game. I like these games and want to play, but the fact is that I don't have as much time for it as I had before.

Additionally I was pleading with people to post alternate thoughts on different people throughout the day. So to simply say the SK discussion was not interesting and so you didn't post isn't enough in my eyes. If that discussion wasn't interesting why didn't you press the discussion in another direction. Your vote on Pindicator came at the beginning of the day and as I've stated you didn't really make a solid case, instead passed on the buck to others.

What the... I stated why I don't think you're SK and attacked Matt + Pind + Azza. How is that not trying to press the discussion in another direction? Maybe I should have yelled? Or go through their posts and turn everything as a sign of guilt?

Then you disappeared only to reappear with a vote on Azza that was worse:

Since no one seems to be interested in voting Pind, Azza

Mainly due to villager reads I have from every other player except Pind and Azza.

That's what you gave us as your reasoning. Its the SAME reasoning you've begun to cart out for the lame list vote on pindictaor later at the end of that day and now again today as well. "Aw man guys! I'm just good at finding villagers! That's my thang!"

Azza is so quiet, it's quite hard to find evidence against him. I still don't have a solid case for him. It was clear people were not willing to vote Pindicator. With votes being:

Lewwyn (3) - Jkaen Ryan Serdoa
Azza (2) - Molach Lewwyn
Jkaen (2) - Bigger Q
Molach (2) - Azza Pindicator
Pindicator (1) - Meiz
Serdoa (1) -

I simply preferred Azza over you.

One other thing. You state that you're busy, you're not around, but you certainly react to things very quickly in thread. You reacted to my post here immediately and you also reacted immediately to my claim yesterday when you asked:

How does that fit to your character?

First is that the most relevant question and second this type of timely response happens often. You are watching the thread very closely and you have created an air of nonchalance but it belies just how much you are watching.

I'm constantly browsing the forums from my mobile.