WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Meiz]

For the sake of completeness I'm going to readdress you clearly explained thoughts on Pindicator again:

Pindicator - His posts contain a lot of content, but I really haven't got villager vibes from them. Impossible to explain, gut screams he's potential wolf or SK. I consider him a good player and think he can make himself look good, when knowing the right answers. Tasunke concentrating on his post restriction and appearing to not understand it, bugs me. Still think his Tasunke vote was rushed to get on the train before it would be too late. Disagreed with his targets quite often, now votes Jkaen but switches to Molach, which would fit with Jkaen being on scum side.

You state that Pindicator's content filled posts are not giving you villager vibes. Then you say its impossible to explain why. Super clear so far. Next: he's a good player who knows how to look good with the right timing. Still not really a great case. Tas being confused about the PR bugs you, ok. Thats clear. Then the bit about the voting.

For me this adds up to an okay to mediocre case on pindi. I don't think its extremely clear. I think its muddled and I think its hidden in the list. I think there are some fine points. And if you read my post that you linked to about you I said I believe you think Pindicator is scum. And I also think pindi has been a bit shifty.

Here's my problem. You really didn't push this with and degree of gusto. If you are the SK then having a case on Pindicator if he flips scum would not clear you of being the SK. My point is that you're not trying very hard to prove it. Today you voted for pindicator while saying "I've got village leans on everybody but these two." You didn't reiterate your case on pindi or try to make it even clearer or even try to put it in another separate post. Maybe you felt rushed to get something out to defend against me but its not like you put any weight behind your counter at me.

It's the best case I got, the one I'm most confident with it. I could repeat the same points over and over again, but don't really see the point. I don't have the right answers, so I prefer people to view Pindicator and make their own opinions on him.

Also this:

I wouldn't be surprised if I have wolves or SK in my village lean list, but these are my current thoughts and I'm inclined to vote people at the bottom of the list.

Pindicator was at the bottom of your list. Next up was Jkaen. By your comment here we can understand that Jkaen was your second suspect? And yet with him on the block, an opportunity to vote for your second suspect, you decline to vote for him even though its clear that voting for pindicator was turning into a wasted vote in terms of actively deciding who got lynched.

So now I've addressed your clear case on pindicator as well as your statement as to why you are posting the way you have. I still think you're the SK.

I wanted to see what others do. Jkaen was about to hang in any case, even at tie.

[Meiz]

No I posit that Meiz is the SK and therefore there is only one faction hunting Meiz.

Why would the SK kill player, who is suspected as SK? Why would wolves kill a player, who can be accused as SK and day lynched?

Do you talk about Bigger?

No, I was responding to Lewwyn since he wodnered why I might be still alive.

Also, both Bigger and Ichabod were the ones thinking I'm innocent...

So you propose the SK and the wolves talked with each other about whom to kill to get rid of anyone thinking you are innocent?

No, I just said it would be quite stupid for me to shoot people who see me as innocent.

[LeChuck]

Also, both Bigger and Ichabod were the ones thinking I'm innocent...

So you propose the SK and the wolves talked with each other about whom to kill to get rid of anyone thinking you are innocent?

No, I just said it would be quite stupid for me to shoot people who see me as innocent.

Unless of course they themselves are confirmed as innocent or are not likely to be lynched. This argument that you wouldn't shoot people who thought you innocent is a fallacy. As SK innocents have to go no matter if they think you're innocent or not. Otherwise eventually it will just be you and them... then who's getting lynched?

[Meiz]

Ok, I get that.

[Molach]

At work, and wasted my break pondering my pbem start...

My vote is not locked in by any means, and keeping up with thread by phone now and then. Bigger post tonight.

Lewwyn, I've been pretty sure Meiz isn't SK due to possible double-killing his way to victory, but it could be balanced by one kill per phase. It is possible. However you mention that his case on Pind is weak, but if he IS the SK, it would only be in his best interest to lynch a wolf and make his best possible effort. In other words, why would SK need to make up a weak case on someone? He does not know who scum is. So I fail to see how 'weak case on pind' is relevant to him being SK.

If we have a choice, it would make sense from a gambling pov to lynch someone who could plausibly be either scum or SK. Meiz isn't scum, so I think smarter to lynch someone else today. Open to other than Azza too, especially if Azza posts even more.

[Azza]

Lewwyn, I've been pretty sure Meiz isn't SK due to possible double-killing his way to victory, but it could be balanced by one kill per phase. It is possible. However you mention that his case on Pind is weak, but if he IS the SK, it would only be in his best interest to lynch a wolf and make his best possible effort. In other words, why would SK need to make up a weak case on someone? He does not know who scum is. So I fail to see how 'weak case on pind' is relevant to him being SK.

Possibly to avoid drawing the attention of people he considers to actually be wolves, possibly because he doesn't care who gets lynched and just wants to put another name forward, possibly because he feels particularly threatened by pindicator and so specifically wants him dead.

[LeChuck]

At work, and wasted my break pondering my pbem start...

My vote is not locked in by any means, and keeping up with thread by phone now and then. Bigger post tonight.

Lewwyn, I've been pretty sure Meiz isn't SK due to possible double-killing his way to victory, but it could be balanced by one kill per phase. It is possible. However you mention that his case on Pind is weak, but if he IS the SK, it would only be in his best interest to lynch a wolf and make his best possible effort. In other words, why would SK need to make up a weak case on someone? He does not know who scum is. So I fail to see how 'weak case on pind' is relevant to him being SK.

If we have a choice, it would make sense from a gambling pov to lynch someone who could plausibly be either scum or SK. Meiz isn't scum, so I think smarter to lynch someone else today. Open to other than Azza too, especially if Azza posts even more.

Okay here's the thing. I think his case on Pindi is weak, but I also think that it is plausible that pindicator is a wolf. he wants to scum hunt, but he doesn't want to scum hunt too well. He needs to do just enough that he can say, "look I'm scumhunting" without drawing the ire of the wolves. This is my point, after his successful day kill his participation, his tone, everything went underground. So the weak case on Pin is all about scumhunting, but not too hard.

[pindicator]

Hey LeWwyn, Nice to see rumors of your demise were greatly exaggerated.

@Serdoa-
What happened to the "We don't know how he'll come back?" stuff you were spouting yesterday? You seem to trust Lewwyn pretty well despite that being a big sticking point for you in the previous day.

I think I prefer Qgqqqqq or Molach to Meiz, but I've had suspicions of Meiz before.

@Azza-
The whole "Lewwyn isn't SK due to X, Y, Z" kills is pure WIFOM territory. For all you know, Serdoa & I were alive because we were the two that were pushing Meiz earlier.

Now, concerning Lewwyn I've gotten some good town reads off a few of his posts, but have been concerned by the amount he has posted before. But seeing his ability it makes sense that he would want to get into a late-game situation to have the best chance at using it well. I also like his arguments today.



So that puts Lewwyn, Serdoa, Ryan, and me as town. I still think Azza belongs here too.
Meiz as questionable, possible SK.
Molach & Qgqqqqq for scum

Qgqqqqq

What are thoughts about doing a mass reveal? I'll even go first if people want

80%

[uberfish]

Meiz (2) - LeChuck Serdoa
Azza (1) - Molach
Molach (1) - Azza
Pindicator (1) - Meiz
Q (1) - Pind
Ryan (1) - Q

[Serdoa]

@Serdoa-
What happened to the "We don't know how he'll come back?" stuff you were spouting yesterday? You seem to trust Lewwyn pretty well despite that being a big sticking point for you in the previous day.

Well, I know he was villager. I don't know what he is now. Is there a chance he has his own agenda? Yes, possibly. Does it make sense to vote him? No, not really. I know there are several scum (3 I think) still left and he wasn't one of them. So lets kill them first and if it is not over by then, I'll take another look at him as his play from this point on.

I would also like to say that I am sorry if my behaviour appeared to be "spouting". If such situation happens again, please be so kind to just tell me that I am being unfair. I am having a hard time realising that lately, for RL-reasons that are not necessary to discuss in detail.

What are thoughts about doing a mass reveal? I'll even go first if people want

I do think that is a good idea. I did already reveal all I have, nothing more to add.