WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Ryan]

Saying that your dead tonight doesnt make sense even. I am a role seer. I am way more dangerous then you are and I dont think that you dying tonight when there are more dangerous target is an excuse to let you live.

[Serdoa]

Ryan, I am not voting for pindicator because if you read his posts, he makes some points that I doubt a wolf would make. I don't care how long he plays with us or not. What I care about is lynching a wolf today. And the most likely wolf I see is Q. He has 200 posts so I am not going to start pointing out wolfish parts of them (because I'll never finish in time and also that gets old real quick).

Also, I have to say I have an extremely hard time not voting Meiz. It is so obvious that he is not playing for village imo that I am even thinking about if he could have set-up the Tasunke kill just to gain deep cover as wolf. That would need someone to block me N2 though and I think except for Azza and Q we know all roles by now. So, there is another reason to vote Q, because him having only a passive role is rather unbelievable if you look what all others have. Yes, Jkaen had no role at all, but that was clearly setup to screw the village-meta-analysts over. Another villager with a hard to believe claim? No, I don't think so. Of course, pindicator clears him for last night, but there is another wolf around who could have done the killing.

I would lean heavily village on

Molach
Serdoa
Lewwyn
Ryan

And non-wolf on Meiz. Leaves

pindicator
Azza
Q

If I am right 2 of those 3 are wolves. And I certainly believe more in Q or Azza as wolf than pindicator. I mean, pindicator disagreed heavily with me but tried to get me back on track and declared me village in the process. That is pretty dumb for a wolf as he basically erases me as a likely lynch-candidate. Yet I am also still alive. That makes no sense if he was a wolf imo. Therefore Azza or Q. And as Meiz votes Azza, I'd rather vote Q.

[Serdoa]

Good point Ryan. I reread pindicators D4 posts and you are right that he is not only letting us jump on Lewwyn, he even jumps on him himself, telling me that I could be right. Why didn't you tell us at that point pindicator? Or at least not go for him? It was obvious that there happened two kills on N3 and you saw that Lewwyn didn't do a thing. I could maybe understand why you would not reveal your role, but why even vote for him?

pindicator

[Qgqqqqq]

I have 1-shot night kill immunity - I've been raised from the dead by necromancers and because some of their power hangs around me. However it dissipates if I enter a night with only 5 living players.

I suppose I haven't been playing it particularly well, though I was trying to attract a kill when I said it got weaker if known.
I don't think I'm told if I get it used up either - I suppose I could've been hit N2.
Serdoa I still am not hearing you respond to me - given my defence why do you still think I'm scum?
Seriously the only point you seem convinced about is the meta around my passive role.

[Ryan]

Lets not fully trust Ryan. I started the Lewwyn train aswell and I was horribly wrong. I dont trust my calls anymore.

[pindicator]

@Pin , I expcted way to much from you as a tracker. You could have easily made all of those scans up. You were trying to lynch people not based on ur abilities. You failed to tell use Lewwyn didnt do anything and we were about to lynch on night 3

"Night 3 - Tracked Lewwyn, No Result" You couldnt have said that? That wasnt worth a reveal to protect a townie? I gave you a town lean due to your role. I tried to trust you about not lying about your post restriction which I didnt see as an ability. If Miez is innocent and only has 1 power then you dont have a post restriction and I dont get why you lied about that.

If you look at the suspicions on Lewwyn my result did not clear him. Serdoa's case as Lewwyn as SK fit exactly with my night result:

Serdoa-

I can see Q as a possibility.
Lewwyn only makes sense as SK to me if the SK has an "all night actions that target you will fail" and if he can kill every other night. But that's a lot of speculation.

Gotta go to work
80%

@Serdoa

@pindicator

Why do you always get so unfriendly? Is it necessary to tell me I'm nuts just because you disagree? Anyway, can you please explain what you mean with that:

"He may be lashing out and angry, but why would he think either way if he was the SK?"

Did you mean why he would do either of that if he was SK? Because I honestly don't see him doing that. He does the same as Q, using Ryan as shield because they know he gets emotional and upset when they do that. Its extremely easy to get in a fight with Ryan and then sit back and say "I'll not going through that, I log off to cool down". And like that, they won another day. Please, read through Qs posts and tell me you don't see that. Lewwyn imo just copied it (and might be angry as well and try to weaken Ryans case by calling him out, so that he doesn't has to answer to the actual case).

As for how he could be SK, I'll do it again for everyone:

N1:

Tasunke blocks BRick -> no result on Lewwyn
Gaius blockcs Mattimeo -> no delay on BRick
Wolfs kill zakalwe
SK (Lewwyn) kills Gaspar

N2:

SK (Lewwyn) kills Rowain -> Mattimeo delays Lewwyn, no nightkill
BRick scans Ichabod -> innocent Ichabod
wolfs kill Meiz -> Serdoa switches Meiz and novice, novice dies (Meiz definitely not wolf)

N3:

SK does not kill -> delayed nightkill on Rowain (had Lewwyn killed we would have had 3 kills and Lewwyn would have been obvious)
wolfs kill BRick

The targets make perfect sense for wolves as for the SK, if the SK is Lewwyn, as he would not want neither Gaspar nor Rowain around much longer. They can read him.

If you think that is dumb pindicator, then please point out why.

I'm sorry, we are getting our wires crossed. I don't think you're nuts or dumb. That line you quoted, i meant that to be directed at Lewwyn about his accusations that you are SK. (When i write RE:"Name" i mean that as regarding the case on that person. @:"Name" is me addressing someone.)

I did feel i needed to say something when you were ripping into Brick, but i don't think you're nuts and i don't think you're scum. We need you and i haven't been confrontational because of that. I am very sorry that i wasn't more clear in that last post, but i meant that line to be addressed to Lewwyn about his accusation that you are SK. Anybody trying to push your buttons right now is suspicious IMO, b/c we can't do this without your help.

Regarding your Lewwyn SK theory, i think that does fit. Fits better than mine, tbh. And as Ichabod said it is likely the SK cannot be alignment scanned so Brick may not have been blocked. He would have to not kill after Mattimeo's reveal b/c 3 kills would point to him. I would only ask how that works with Ichabod's taunt: but maybe the action was locked in night 2 and then Ichabod's taunt only works on the N3 action.

I really think Lewwyn's play fits as SK too. He's not hunting like normally, but he comes up with a strong push every other day or so. But i don't think he's acting like town Lewwyn.

@Bigger
Don't misinterpret my listing: i wad basing that off town reads. Rowain was in The Rest because he had been so quiet. But his engagement last night was good and if he had been alive today i would put him leaning town.

Meiz-
I forgot about Q attacking you before the Tas execute went through.

I feel like we're narrowing this down. Jkaen & molach look like a good pair. Maybe Bigger and Q, but less likely for those two IMO. Agree that Lewwyn is plausible SK

Jkaen i don't believe your claim.

70%

These are what i wrote. If you look at the reasoning you'll see it does fit: first i say the only way Lewwyn as SK works is if night actions on him get blocked. Then Serdoa's theory fits so much better that i agree with him.

Because Serdoa's theory was that SK Lewwyn knew he had to not do a kill Night 3 else having 3 kills would give him away. And to me, that fit with me having no result for that night.

So i could not clear Lewwyn by claiming and i could not see a purpose to revealing if my info couldn't add to or disprove the Lewwyn-SK theory.

I could have stayed on Lewwyn and had him lynched that day too. But i didn't, which should tell you just how much i believed that theory in the end.


---

Serdoa, i don't like Lewwyn's about face on me either, but he's done this paranoia routine before. Possessed is possible but i think tin-foil hat-ish. More likely he's just honestly afraid of being duped. But that's playing out of fear of losing, ala NFL prevent defense.


---

This day keeps getting better and better. I have a meeting that starts 30min before deadline. So my last post will be sometime around the one-hour mark. And if i need to change my vote then i will: I've already stated my preference for Azza & Meiz, but Qgqqqqq is also a suspect in my eyes. I don't think i could vote for anyone else.


---

Ryan, why do you keep posting replies to yourself that contradict your own stuff? This isn't the first time and i'm baffled if this is some part of your role or what it means???

[Ryan]

Contradict myself???? can you please point where?

[Serdoa]

God I need a list with all those night-actions and preventions... it really gets annoying, I'm forgetting half the stuff that happened. I looked at the list on the first page and it said 2 kills in N3. I didn't even remember all that stuff about Mattimeo, Lewwyn etc. despite it being Ryans and mine theory.

Therefore back to

Qgqqqq

[Serdoa]

Lets not fully trust Ryan. I started the Lewwyn train aswell and I was horribly wrong. I dont trust my calls anymore.

I would expect he means the post I quoted Ryan.

[Serdoa]

Inofficial votecount:

Azza (3) - molach pind meiz
Pind (2) - lewwyn ryan
Meiz (1) - Q
Molach (1) - azza
Qgqqqq (1) - Serdoa

Azza, whom do you believe to be a wolf apart from Molach? Because you sure will get lynched if you don't switch from a target that won't get lynched today. Q, same goes to you.