February 20th, 2013, 16:41
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I like the idea of SoZ in BbB - it has three forests and 7hpt base so should knock it off quickly too. Would probably be the quickest way to gain control of the area (or really punish a CivPlayers city trying to claim the flood plains). On the other hand, the city is still pretty exposed, and now it'd have a big target sign over itself. FP won't have that trouble.
But this game seems more and more like PB4...
If we're going to slot in Aesthetics, why not do it before CoL? It's not like we are going to build any courthouses anytime soon (we still haven't started a single market), so it's not that time-critical. It might also make the other teams nervous about us building the Great Library.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
February 20th, 2013, 16:47
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What about Eastern Gem Dealers for the SoZ? We have a forest to chop, three more grass hills that can be mined, and it would certainly put CFC's stupid city in a bag of hurt. Having the GPP in the NE city would also help.
It does make for a more long-term plan than doing it in FP, though.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
February 20th, 2013, 16:58
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SOZ - yes please  .
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
February 20th, 2013, 16:59
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I'd like to see HBR -> Aesth -> CoL.
Eastern Dealers would be ok for SoZ, but if we pile on Globe, Nat'l Epic, artists too... there will be diplo consequences.
BbB is exposed, but 3rd ring borders are more important there than any other city.
Also, I haven't seen it mentioned: if we settle on ivory, CPers can put a nice riverside-cow-diamonds city 3t away. That's a culture battle we likely cannot win without a Great Artist. nothing to do about it, just bears considering.
February 20th, 2013, 17:48
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I don't think we need to run artists in ED. I wouldn't be opposed to building SoZ there. We'll get third ring borders in BB rather easily without SoZ, but SoZ would get us fourth ring pretty quickly.
February 20th, 2013, 18:10
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Soz in BB seems to dangerous to me. It would be primarily,at least in the short term, to discourage civ players from going to war w/ us and punish them if they do. if its built in our only city thats exposed it might serve as an incentive to war w/ us rather than a deterrent!
ED is fine for it though.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
February 20th, 2013, 18:44
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I have never built SoZ before in multiplayer - can anyone who's been on the receiving end of it describe how bad it gets? And are the hammers worth it or would they be better put into catapults, horse archers and elephants?
Regarding techs, I'm very happy to leave code of laws and civil service for later. I agree that horseback riding, aesthetics and literature are higher priorities.
February 20th, 2013, 19:01
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I think EGD should get SoZ, not BbB. I want to punish that stupid city.
It's only not worth building SoZ if you're actually behind, if you're already ahead you can often afford it.
Also, just how fast can CPers reasonably build Horse Archers, assuming whips every 3rd turn, I think they could assemble a scary stack of 10-20 HAs very quickly. Of course, that would cost them a ton of pop and economy, would they really sacrifice that just to take a single non-core border city of ours? Or would they rather send it into someone else's core, where they can do their 2-movery thing and run around forking everything?
February 20th, 2013, 23:53
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(February 20th, 2013, 18:44)sooooo Wrote: I have never built SoZ before in multiplayer - can anyone who's been on the receiving end of it describe how bad it gets? And are the hammers worth it or would they be better put into catapults, horse archers and elephants?
Granted, this maybe isn't the best example, but I have only ever seen it in action in a team game pbem vs AIs with my brother, but it was not a pretty sight. Monty built it and warred with us gamelong. We could definitely feel it. Don't have any hard numbers though.
February 21st, 2013, 00:13
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The value of the WW is probably more psychological than mathematical. That is, it's a deterrent to our aggressors. But there's just as much value (maybe more?) in the culture.
300h at 225% = 133 base hammers for 10 culture per turn. Culture is one of those things that's impossible to quantify, but at one of our antagonized borders (Brick or Dealers) the culture is nice.
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