Brick by Brick (Spoiler Alert!)

[TheHumanHydra]

I don't see what the problem would be. Your units spend a turn doing absolutely nothing, they get healed. ???

I'm kind of ticked about this. The more I think about it, the more I realize my stack is in really serious danger as a result. As Sullla says, I hope readers will judge the process and not the results here: with the information known to me, I made a carefully-calculated decision intended to ensure the immunity of my stack. If anyone says it's my own dang fault for not knowing this, well, yes and no. Remember this is essentially my first multiplayer game, so I don't have experience to teach me things like this (it's rather difficult to notice in single-player). Everything else in Civ IV happens at end of turn; why would I randomly assume this might not? Most importantly, I did actually look up a bunch of stuff about healing before making my decision. I made every reasonable effort to inform myself before making my decision, carefully considered and made calculations upon that information, deduced a method to achieve my goals, and enacted it. Now watch my stack get destroyed and Serdoa and Old Harry (who's watching) wonder why I'm so dense at tactics.* Sorry for the rant; I had to get it out of me.

[NobleHelium]

The problem would be that would be overpowered, and your units haven't spent a turn doing nothing yet. They've spent part of / half a turn doing nothing. Combat involves more than one player.

It is unusual relative to the rest of the game, that's true. It's not unreasonable to assume what you did, but it is your fault for not knowing the game mechanics.

[TheHumanHydra]

Time for my full report. Good gosh am I pissed about that healing thing, but I'll refrain from ranting more because I know you won't want to hear it. I will show you the situation though: Edit: I was writing this when you posted, NobleHelium; it has nothing to do with your remarks. I agree with your second paragraph.




First I did something mildly clever, leading-as-warlord a 6XP knight so it could have exactly enough XP for Combat I - Medic I - Medic II - Medic III - Morale (+1 movement), allowing it to move out, pillage the road, and move back. This way my stack could stay in place and heal (or not) without worrying about Serdoa's catapults or spearmen. Here I made a legitimate mistake, believing there was only one tile his workers could be on that would allow him to combat-road the pillaged tile back, and that it didn't make any sense for his workers to be there, but I realized afterwards there are actually multiple. That could be the death-knell for my stack of itself. But I think the Great General move of itself was smart.

Here you can see the situation at end of turn (you can see I shaved a turn off Liberalism, yay!):




My stack obviously got healed up a bit by promotions (Shock, which made sense assuming my knights would be at full health to face his horse archers), but his horse archers will undoubtedly be too. Here are the possibilities:

1. Serdoa attacks my stack with his horse archers. This results in a bunch of even-odds battles with equal numbers of troops, obviously favouring him attritionally.

2. Serdoa is able to combat-road that grassland again and attacks my stack with everything. My stack is destroyed, I fly into a rage and swear oaths unspeakable save in a Klingon hall of honour-duels.

3. Serdoa combat-roads the horses and attacks my mini-stack with his horse archers. This might result in the destruction of said mini-stack, but would probably favour me attritionally.

4. Serdoa moves his horse archers into Constantinople to prevent its capture; his foot forces follow behind, for the moment out of reach. Hallelujah, my stack is saved.

5. Serdoa gets it in his head he can't defeat my stack and retreats up around the bend toward his Hydranauts- and Aquanauts-equivalent cities. I scratch my head in confusion, destroy all his other cities and cut off all his strategic resources. All right, this one's just a fantasy.

Most likely (imho): 2 if workers in position, toss-up between 1 and 4 if not. Ehn, I think 1.

Due to these contingencies, I decided I needed another round of knights rather than start on universities (darn):




Demos:




Any feedback on the "screenshot" format? Personally I feel it's pointless, but whatever you guys would like.

[TheHumanHydra]

Well, whatever happens, at least no one can say I wasn't aware I might lose my stack in this war. Further, my economic and long-term plans were from the start largely independent of my success on the battlefield, though city captures and, ironically, the loss of so many units last turn have certainly sped me on my way to Liberalism (fingers crossed). I think with the razing of Char and Nicaea last turn we've passed the point of dealing the death-blow to Serdoa's chances in this game, which was the point of this war, even if I had hoped for more complete success. However, I'm not a good judge of such things, and despite this being a snowball game, RB has seen its fair share of comebacks (even in this game - Azza, me).

I don't know how or when exactly this war will end, but assuming nothing intervenes the plan remains to tech to cuirassiers or cavalry and strike Azza for - hopefully - the win. Ach, who knows what could happen. Serdoa isn't as dead as I'd like him to be. Did you know Old Harry just settled his 14th city?!!! I'll just have to try and leverage that tech lead I think I have. Hopefully to better success than in this war ...

Frak, I had hoped to make a good showing in my first war on RB. Now I just look like an idiot - tech lead and I still got destroyed. You have no idea how frustrating this is.

[TheHumanHydra]

So Serdoa goes horizontal, attacks with overwhelming numbers, does massive damage, and is destroyed. I go vertical, attack with technological advantage, do (hopefully) massive damage, and am destroyed. Lesson: attack with both overwhelming numbers and technological advantage so as not to be destroyed. Problem: time to develop overwhelming numbers may allow target to reach technological parity. Solution: unknown. I wonder how long it would take me to build 40 cuirassiers. Maybe I should draft my cities into the ground for rifles ... ??? (don't answer, obviously).

[TheHumanHydra]

Hey guys, at what point in your turn does whip/draft unhappiness count down? And does it count down the turn you whip/draft, or only the turn after? Ie. is a complete draft rotation six cities times drafts/turn or seven cities times drafts/turn? Do rifles draft for one pop?

(I've only ever played one game in which I drafted, and I didn't do a complete rotation. Honest.)

[NobleHelium]

Whip and draft counters decrement at the end of your turn, including the turn that you initiated the counter.

And yes, rifles draft for one pop.

[TheHumanHydra]

Thank you very much. So it looks like a complete draft rotation for my empire would be 14 cities: one Globe Theatre that drafts every turn, one Heroic Epic that never drafts, and two sets of six cities to draft in rotation while the unhappiness wears off. Since rifles are one-pop drafts, I'm sure I could keep my cities at a stable population that would allow me to work all my cottages while drafting, though I wouldn't be able to run the lucrative Free Speech. Actually, probably my hammers-tiles too: that would allow four-turn cavalry in my six best production cities. If I could get my Heroic Epic city to 27 base hammers/turn (I think that's doable, assuming I have a Heroic Epic unit left after Serdoa hits my stack), it could produce one-turn cannon. For every six turns, that would be 18 rifles, nine cavalry, six cannon. Or get two more hammers/turn in my six production cities and do three-turn cannon instead: 18 rifles, 12 cannon. Can I get to 14 cities with my existing land base? [sucks in air] It would be tight - I might be one short. Still, I should try: 30+ units per six turns is nothing to sneeze at (I think). Currently I'm at, what, 12 knights in six turns, without whipping? I could have an equivalent army to the one with which I attacked Serdoa every six turns, all state-of-the-art - without affecting my tech rate (save for the unit upkeep costs, and no Free Speech bonus). I could do this with muskets and knights, too, I guess, but I don't want to fight at tech parity. Hmmm, I'm getting excited. I'm seriously considering doing this.

[TheHumanHydra]

Getting to cannon in time might be difficult. I should do it with trebuchets instead, which lessens the hammers/turn requirement for my Heroic Epic city. New question: I read on the internet the Heroic Epic can be built even if your level 4 unit is already dead. So even if, say, my Great General medic dies on Serdoa's turn, I've met the requirement and can later build the Heroic Epic? And just so I don't get screwed over by counterintuitive rules again, a level 4 unit created through a Great General and not combat does count for the requirement, right?

[NobleHelium]

Yes, you've already unlocked the HE.