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Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

#3,831
May 2nd, 2013, 14:39
Merovech Offline
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Look, Taj is important. It is not, however, game-decidingly important. I would not perform such actions if this were my game, but I will yield to the group consensus. I am not convinced that the group consensus is to game the system; as much as I respect Sullla, it appears to me that he is, intentionally or not, effectively cowing opposition to his will. This will be my only post on the subject.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#3,832
May 2nd, 2013, 14:56
pindicator Offline
Clerics are the worst
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(May 2nd, 2013, 14:39)Merovech Wrote: Look, Taj is important. It is not, however, game-decidingly important. I would not perform such actions if this were my game, but I will yield to the group consensus.

I agree with you on the point here, Mero. Losing Taj would be a loss, true, and my preference would be not to swap production either. If we are all okay with a winning-is-all mentality, then that's fine -- and we've certainly nuzzled up against the line on some agreements already --, but we should refrain from passing judgment on actions that are personally unfavorable but technically allowable under the rules.
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#3,833
May 2nd, 2013, 15:00
darrelljs Offline
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How is what we are doing wrong again? I missed the explanation for that...

Darrell
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#3,834
May 2nd, 2013, 15:01
kjn Offline
Absent-minded micro-manager
Posts: 4,090
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Choosing your functionaries is a critical part of democracy, and one that's forgotten way to often.

We can discuss policies and guidelines and morality from now until forever, but the most important decisions we make are who will carry the decisions out, since they have to be comfortable with the decisions.

Most players here are comfortable with power-gaming to some degree or another, though it happens that we draw different lines on what constitutes power-gaming, abuse of the game, and ungentlemanly behaviour. But since Sullla is our elected official the buck stops with him. He has stated repeatedly that he is ready to abuse the turn timer and swap builds at times, and in his judgment such a time is now.

As for taking advantage of information leaks in-game, this game is several years out of development now, and part of our ethos is to find strange edge cases and hidden corners - and to document and share them. It's not like T-Hawk's functions for finding out production are hidden - they're lying in public posts in our forums here.

Should we switch turn-player? If Sullla wants to step down, sure, but I'm more than happy with his job so far. I might disagree with some decisions he takes, but I don't fret over that. The important thing is that he is a player and reporter of the highest quality.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
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#3,835
May 2nd, 2013, 15:07
Boldly Going Nowhere Offline
Coffee's for closers only.
Posts: 5,455
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(May 2nd, 2013, 14:34)kalin Wrote:
(May 2nd, 2013, 13:59)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Kalin, I disagree with the notion of a turnplayer executive override. We're a team. The turnplayer has a very strong impact on the game, but should not be making some decisions without team input, otherwise we're all just lurking the turnplayer's game.

It wasn't me and I agree with you here.

I also want to express support for Sullla as our turn player.

Kalin

Apologies, you were on my mind from my post in the C&D thread. It was Tyrmith's post I was referring to.
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#3,836
May 2nd, 2013, 15:09
NobleHelium Offline
Terse Lurker. Competence First.
Posts: 13,214
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I'm not arguing for or against whether we should be doing it. I just want to make sure that r_rolo has nothing to do with whatever we end up doing.
Civilization IV: 21 (Bismarck of Mali), 29 (Mao Zedong of Babylon), 38 (Isabella of China), 45 (Victoria of Sumeria), PB12 (Darius of Sumeria), 56 (Hammurabi of Sumeria), PB16 (Bismarck of Mali), 78 (Augustus of Byzantium), PB56 (Willem of China)
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#3,837
May 2nd, 2013, 15:12
Boldly Going Nowhere Offline
Coffee's for closers only.
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(May 2nd, 2013, 15:09)NobleHelium Wrote: I'm not arguing for or against whether we should be doing it. I just want to make sure that r_rolo has nothing to do with whatever we end up doing.

dito Incidentally, I found Darrell's post earlier about asking for admin support pretty hilarious. elephant
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#3,838
May 2nd, 2013, 15:21
Brian Shanahan Offline
Permanoob
Posts: 3,726
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(May 2nd, 2013, 13:59)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Pending new discoveries with the SW chariot, my vote for the settler goes for the coastal plains 2E/1N of the sheep.

I concur, after looking at the sites for about a minute.
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
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#3,839
May 2nd, 2013, 15:28
Merovech Offline
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Posts: 3,588
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Joined: Jun 2012
(May 2nd, 2013, 15:01)kjn Wrote: Should we switch turn-player? If Sullla wants to step down, sure, but I'm more than happy with his job so far. I might disagree with some decisions he takes, but I don't fret over that. The important thing is that he is a player and reporter of the highest quality.

Agreed.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#3,840
May 2nd, 2013, 17:47
Ceiliazul Offline
Member
Posts: 4,831
Threads: 12
Joined: Jul 2010
I support Sulla as turn player.

I support production swapping (even if CFC doesn't do C&D, there's a good chance CivPlayers has our map and can feed info to other teams.

I support the settler move to 2E1N of sheep.

I think morality is a good discussion to have *before* in-game actions are necessary. In another thread.
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