Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[kjn]

We already have a NAP to t200. Obviously if we think that is at risk (and that we actually want to keep the current arrangement) then we should reconsider our message.

No, we have a NAP to T175, and there was talk about needing to extend our NAP offer from Apolyton (T170) so it wouldn't fall too closely to that.

[Ellimist]

What about a simpler message just letting them know we don't approve of their actions?

Our initial response to their message shouldn't be haggling over the timing of the marble, it shouldn't be solicitation of a bribe. Just give them a very short "Lewwyn style" response to freak them out a little. Don't commit to anything or make any specific threats or demands, but make them wonder if we're about to go nuts and make them regret it.

Given how our own team goes in circles and agonizes over this sort of thing, let's give them cause to do the same. THEN we can ask for a bribe.


Possible responses(skipping the usual salutation/etc.):

Bullshit.

Cool story bro.

I'm going to pretend you didn't just insult me. Try again.

If I forward your message to the rest of the team, it's going to tick them off. Is this intentional, or would you like to try that again?

WHEOOHRN

Alea iacta est.

Someone else can probably come up with specific messages that are better, but this is the style I would favor as our initial response to this. We don't want to destroy what deals we still have with them, but we don't want them to think they can openly screw us and then gloat about it.

We can ask for a bribe or whatever after they respond. But their response will at least tell us more about what they think they can get away with.

[antisocialmunky]

I think they wanted to 'honor' their agreement in a very ill advised way, nothing malicious unless CFC is secretly housed at the Dreadfort:

"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

Its technically our fault for having blinders on and not questioning whether or not we would even be in a race for Taj with CFC. After all, what if the (near) runaway told this team they needed Marble in a 30 turn window and the only reason that team would want marble would be to build Taj? What do you do? You do what CFC did and try to snipe Taj because you gamble they will do standard Lib race that you don't have a chance at anyway. :/

Oh well, at least you can't miss out on running over some poor backwards Civ with knights by one turn. (Did we ever decide to ask WPC to push back the time table for German killing?)

[SevenSpirits]

CFC pulled off a good move, one we would have been proud of if the tables were turned.

Let's be clear about this: *I* would not have been proud of that.

[Azza]

We already have a NAP to t200. Obviously if we think that is at risk (and that we actually want to keep the current arrangement) then we should reconsider our message.

There is no hissy fit. The point of diplomacy is to contribute to winning the game, just like any other aspect of the game.

If I was CFC receiving a diplo correspondence of the sentiment expressed here by most, I'd see it as a hissy fit because CFC beat RB to Taj.

[novice]

Hi Scooter

As you might have noticed, the Spaniards have finally agreed to peace and we were able to connect our marble! We would like to gift it to you now as per our agreement. We currently don't need it but we would like to start on our own Epics in about ten turns. We have offered it in game so please ask your turnplayer to accept it.
Thanks,

Caledorn / Team CFC

My suggested reply:

Hi Caledorn,

Thanks, but we don't need marble at this time. Maybe you know why.
If you have something else to offer us instead of marble we'd be interested, otherwise we'll take a 10 turn loan of marble after you've finished your epics, starting no later than t150.

P.S: We suggest you be honest with us in diplo and refrain from insulting our intelligence. You settled your marble resource the turn before you signed peace with the Spanish. Don't try to pretend that your war with the Spanish is the reason for the timing of your marble settlement.

scooter

I'd be fine with skipping the P.S. too, but people are calling for snark...

[Ellimist]

If I was CFC receiving a diplo correspondence of the sentiment expressed here by most, I'd see it as a hissy fit because CFC beat RB to Taj.

Whereas if we ignore their intentional rudeness, as we've done in the past, we invite more of the same in the future. If we want to be able to rely on this team for anything, we need to appeal to their own self-interest.

Yes, we wanted the NAP with them, but they wanted it too. We wanted it more than them, and they knew that, so now they're taking advantage of that. The fact is, we have a significant army and it's about to get a lot bigger, and at the very least we can pressure them for a longer NAP if that's what we want. If they have to wonder whether we consider the agreement broken, they'll be looking for some sign from us that reaffirms or renews it.

Right now, they think it benefits them to walk all over us. At the very least, we need to suggest that this is a bad idea.

[NobleHelium]

I don't mind Ellimist's proposed responses either.

My bad about the NAP date.

[Azza]

If I was CFC receiving a diplo correspondence of the sentiment expressed here by most, I'd see it as a hissy fit because CFC beat RB to Taj.

Whereas if we ignore their intentional rudeness, as we've done in the past, we invite more of the same in the future. If we want to be able to rely on this team for anything, we need to appeal to their own self-interest.

Yes, we wanted the NAP with them, but they wanted it too. We wanted it more than them, and they knew that, so now they're taking advantage of that. The fact is, we have a significant army and it's about to get a lot bigger, and at the very least we can pressure them for a longer NAP if that's what we want. If they have to wonder whether we consider the agreement broken, they'll be looking for some sign from us that reaffirms or renews it.

Right now, they think it benefits them to walk all over us. At the very least, we need to suggest that this is a bad idea.

I'm not saying we should just ignore it, but it needs to be clear that we're not pissed because we missed out of Taj (even if we are). We're pissed because they blatantly lied about when they secured marble, and demanded that we take our 10 turns of marble when we had already acquired it from other sources. I much prefer something along the lines of what novice suggested over a big "fuck you CFC" type note.

[novice]

I agree with Azza, obviously.