Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[Sullla]

While I agree with the decision in this particular case, it's really not a good idea to log in and accept/deny diplo requests from other teams without discussing them with the rest of the team. Not blaming you specifically kjn, I just don't want people making a habit out of this.

[kjn]

While I agree with the decision in this particular case, it's really not a good idea to log in and accept/deny diplo requests from other teams without discussing them with the rest of the team. Not blaming you specifically kjn, I just don't want people making a habit out of this.

Guilty as charged. I fully agree with this, and I had in fact posted a notice about it earlier in this thread.

Sadly, very few commented on it, before we got back to our usual bickering about responses to CFC.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I rather like asm's message.

[NobleHelium]

I wouldn't mind asm's message.

If we want to send a purely factual curt message, we'll have to decide on what facts to state first.

[Ellimist]

I like ASM's message, but a more subtle threat(not in writing) would be more effective. "When we want your marble, we ask for it." or some variant would be great.

We benefit a lot more if we can keep CFC guessing for now, and make them worry about our intentions as the power graph shoots upward. We can also position stacks of units slightly beyond the limits of their vision into our territory, which they are likely to see with spies. (I strongly suspect that they are sending spies into our territory each turn, and likely returning them to their border city each turn so that they don't get caught. This helps explain why they wanted that city there in the first place.)


At a minimum, we can probably get them to prioritize outdated military units instead of infrastructure.

[NobleHelium]

Spies don't get caught when you have OB. Does CFC even have Alphabet?

[kjn]

CFC, CivFr, and Apolyton all have Alphabet.

That the placement of their stupid city on our borders is due to using it as a spy central would be just idiotic. I think it's more likely due to a panicked reaction when we settled near the oasis, and they going into "must have stone".

Of more interest might be this, regarding international trades on T136:

Wpc (none) <-> CFC (wine)
Apolyton (fish) <-> CFC (silk)
Apolyton (5g) <-> Germans (stone)
Apolyton (wheat) <-> CivFr (sugar)
CivPlayers (clam) <-> CivFr (rice)
CivPlayers (none) <-> CivFr (marble)
CivPlayers (wheat) <-> Univers (pigs)

Ie, the main traders are Apolyton, CivPlayers, and CivFr. I think CivFr has been (or are) in a health crunch, which is hardly surprising with a size 18 city in the medieval era. I think we should look into getting a trade of sugar from CivPlayers down the road, perhaps for gems.

Another possible option would be to try to hurt CivFr indirectly, by trading spices to Apolyton for wheat, but that can easily backfire.

Note that Univers isn't trading much, and the Spanish not at all. I think we should look for trading opportunities with them.

[antisocialmunky]

I like ASM's message, but a more subtle threat(not in writing) would be more effective. "When we want your marble, we ask for it." or some variant would be great.

We benefit a lot more if we can keep CFC guessing for now, and make them worry about our intentions as the power graph shoots upward. We can also position stacks of units slightly beyond the limits of their vision into our territory, which they are likely to see with spies. (I strongly suspect that they are sending spies into our territory each turn, and likely returning them to their border city each turn so that they don't get caught. This helps explain why they wanted that city there in the first place.)


At a minimum, we can probably get them to prioritize outdated military units instead of infrastructure.

Well, I think think the most threatening things should be said with a smile.

Hi Caledorn,

This is bad timing for a trade, we'll have your marble after we finish drafting.

Good Luck,

If we act hostile, best case is they crank out a few units, expected case would be like "Lol, what are those Ridiculous Bastards doing?" and they'd ignore it and not care. You'd need to follow up with something like not renewing the NAP. You can't drop overt hints, you need to do something like coordinate with the Spanish to both build up units or something while sending nice fluff messages if they ask about it.

I rather just be curt and short. Best case is they underestimate us and screw something up because of it, worst case is a continuation of the status quo.

If you really want to be snarky:

Hi Caledorn,

Thanks for the offer but its not a good time, can we have it in about 10 turns? I'm sure you need it for something since the Spanish have delayed its hook up for so long.

Your Friends,
RB

[Azoth]

I still don't see any reason to issue threats, subtle or otherwise.

We don't want CFC to think that we won't be renewing the NAP. We don't want them to start planning espionage missions. We don't want them to stuff their stupid border city with medieval units. We'd rather they keep their current garrison - a wounded Chariot and unpromoted Archer. We'd rather they think we're trying for the Sistine Chapel, and waste their beakers "sniping" it from us. Heck, we'd rather give them a safe backline, so we can take out the Germans and they can bang their head against Boudicca of the Zulu again. If we later invade them, we want them to be unprepared. No need to telegraph our intentions 50 turns in advance.

[Shoot the Moon]

I still don't see any reason to issue threats, subtle or otherwise.

We don't want CFC to think that we won't be renewing the NAP. We don't want them to start planning espionage missions. We don't want them to stuff their stupid border city with medieval units. We'd rather they keep their current garrison - a wounded Chariot and unpromoted Archer. We'd rather they think we're trying for the Sistine Chapel, and waste their beakers "sniping" it from us. Heck, we'd rather give them a safe backline, so we can take out the Germans and they can bang their head against Boudicca of the Zulu again. If we later invade them, we want them to be unprepared. No need to telegraph our intentions 50 turns in advance.

Agreed entirely. Being pissy toward them gets us nothing.