[Spoilers] Gavagai, Bacchus and Elizabeth Form a Romantic Trio

[Bacchus]

Let's terrify everyone with this post count.

We'll have to see the other picks first, if there's another clear warmonger in addition to Sury, Skirmishers might be better for deterrence value in the early game. I'm not sure what to think of Mehmed, but probably scary.

Seowon beats Mint, but in our case probably not as much as usual — we'll need MC for prod early, so the building will come online much sooner, and we'll probably run some merchants, so the multiplier will actually have a base to boost.

I'm pretty sure we can get Portugal, though, that'd be fairly nifty.

I'm slightly worried that I have no clue how to judge this position relatively. Now, obviously we have something like leading long-term commerce potential with 10 flat grasslands and a bunch of coast, even if it is just 3 riverside tiles. Also we are obviously lagging prod, especially after the move — but by how much? Is this low-normal level of prod, or is it actually so bad, that there's a metal to balance it to the east? The opposite for food, we are obviously doing alright, but how alright? Is a settleable 3f tile common, perhaps alternating with a plains hill, or is this a break for us? Three clams -- decent, or actually average?

[Commodore]

Maya is also Mysticism/Mining. Although I'll betcha if you want the porch-uggles, you'll get 'em.

[Gavagai]

Three clams is average and I think that map generator should have given us at least one more resource. I think that our starting position has two more grassland hills, so metal is definitely a probability.
This capital won't need prod anyway. It will need to build three workers, three WBs, two settlers, granary, lighthouse, library. After that it will be purely on a commerce duty. That's the ideal at least.
...or we can go with Oracle - Pyramids - Colossus gambit, I'm thinking of now. But we should be lucky to have this option opened to us. It needs even more forests than we already have and delayed early religions.

[Krill]

I don't think anyone has picked Portugal before in any normal game with a standard snakepick (PB3 excepted).

[Gavagai]

Maya is also Mysticism/Mining. Although I'll betcha if you want the porch-uggles, you'll get 'em.

Maya's UU/UB are inferior to Korea's either... Actually, I may even consider choosing Korea over Portugal.

[Gavagai]

I don't think anyone has picked Portugal before in any normal game with a standard snakepick (PB3 excepted).

Well, were there a normal game with more than 4-5 players, snake pick and a water map?

[Gavagai]

We'll have to see the other picks first, if there's another clear warmonger in addition to Sury, Skirmishers might be better for deterrence value in the early game. I'm not sure what to think of Mehmed, but probably scary.

Seowon beats Mint, but in our case probably not as much as usual — we'll need MC for prod early, so the building will come online much sooner, and we'll probably run some merchants, so the multiplier will actually have a base to boost.

Well, if starts are balanced (and Krill assured that they are), we should have copper somewhere nearby. And with copper - why would we want to build skirmishers? Skirmishers a great for rushing or for resourceless starts or against Deity AI... None of these is our situation.

[Krill]

PBs 1, 2, and 4 were played on maps where a navy was important, a snake pick was used and there were more than 5 players.

[Bacchus]

Who doesn't like Korea. But I would actually see both holkans and skirmishers as great enablers of a more peaceful early-game, whilst Hwachas as fairly pointless, given the circumstances. Unless we discover miraculous sources of prod in this jungle goodness, classical war would be a nightmare that +50% vs. melee will do little do fix.

EDIT: (in response to prior question) Oh, the point is not so much to actually build skirmishers or holkans as a matter of course, as just having the ability to build them, should something happen.

[Gavagai]

PBs 1, 2, and 4 were played on maps where a navy was important, a snake pick was used and there were more than 5 players.

Was it known for players that there would be a lot of water on these maps before they have chosen a civ? As far as I remember - no. Hence, abundance of water was irrelevant for their picks.