Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[Cyneheard]

Wait no, I wanna reassess Cutting Edge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently CE is in a +7F +4H configuration?

We have 2 options. One is work +7F for 2 turns until size 8, and the put the new citizen on a grass mine at +6F for 3 turns.

Alternatively, we can work the mine this turn for +7F, next turn work the farm for +9F, then the new citizen goes back onto the mine for +8F for 2 turns. That means we'll grow to size 9 one turn earlier.

Option 1:
+4h for 2t
+7h for 3t

Option 2:
+4h this turn
+1h next turn
+4h for 2t
Reconfigure.

So hammer-happy get 9h over the next 4t, and have one fewer citizen for one turn - but what's the value of the extra food-neutral turn?

[Sullla]

Turn 153 - 860AD

We pushed through Worms this turn without too much trouble, and our offensive rolls on towards the German capital.

This was what we saw when we opened up the game. The Germans discovered Feudalism last turn (note the emergency longbow whipped in Worms at the 3 pop swapping penalty) and used their Spiritual trait to revolt into Vassalage this turn. They did a lot of whipping and have some combination of longbows and war elephants popping out of their cities next turn.

The key info was how the Germans chose to defend this area. We were thinking that they would make a stand at Worms, and that might leave them open to being attacked by two movers at their capital. Instead, they actually pulled units OUT of Worms and retreated them back to the capital, with elephants and spears all over the place up there. There were only three units inside the city of Worms: 1 longbow, 1 axe, and 1 spear. This made the decision pretty easy, to skip using the catapults and simply brute force our way through Worms at low odds.



That's 0.79% odds in the mace vs longbow battle there. Still, the maces are basically disposable for us. They do not scale very well as the game goes on, far worse than knights or catapults. We have oodles of these guys sitting around, time to put them to use.

Battle of Worms
Mace vs G1 longbow 0.8% LOSE
Mace vs G1 longbow 17% LOSE
Mace vs G1 longbow 54% WIN
Mace vs axe 28% LOSE
Mace vs spear 80% WIN
Mace vs axe 97% WIN
CAPTURE WORMS

The battle went about as expected, could have been better, could have been worse. We received just over 100 in capture gold from the city, and were unlucky in having no buildings survive. Rats. Overall, I was pretty happy with this result. We kept our knights alive and the offensive kept rolling forward.

Here's a couple pictures of the area after the battle was over.

The main stack moved up into the city of Worms itself, securing it against any potential counterattack. We have 5 knights, 3 elephants, 13 maces, 10 cats, and 4 war chariots on that tile. The poor catapults have yet to see any combat, amusingly enough. There are two injured maces south of the city (and a full strength knight to cover them just in case) which will move into Worms next turn. Further south are 8 maces and 1 cat which will join the main stack next turn, and a further 2 maces and 1 cat a turn behind them, which will help garrison Worms next turn.

Our knights are in position to take Helm S Klamm next turn:

The knights are actually completely safe against attack on that hill tile; no German one-movers can hit them from anywhere, and they will obviously win against German chariots, if they should be hiding somewhere. Helm is size 1 (although it will not auto raze because it's grown previously to size 2) and cannot whip any extra defenders, nor are there any units in position to defend. It will fall next turn, and we will have large odds to win without losing a knight in the process. The knights can then easily rejoin the main stack.

The offensives next turn are drawn in yellow. Aside from the attack at Helm, we'll move the main stack a tile northwest (barring us seeing something at the start of turn, of course). This allows the two movers to fork Weil der Stadt along with the capital and force them to keep at least a token presence in there, while also moving a tile closer to the capital. The Germans don't have enough roads in that area, moving northwest actually takes away a valuable road from them. That's the basic plan for next turn.

The white boxes are all tiles with worker pairs on them. We'll road them all and continue to push reinforcements towards the front. Engineering tech is literally worth its weight in gold moving these units around. This is what allows the stack west of the pigs to join the main stack next turn: NW-NE-NW tiptoeing around the German culture. Good stuff. (If the Germans want to attack our Woody II axe in the jungle with their C1 axe in Helm, they are welcome to take the shot.)



Northwest front was quiet this turn. We roaded the tiles east and north of Mano y Mano this turn. Next turn, we can opt to road the iron tile in the desert and push forward our 3 maces + 1 war elephant if we want. There are also 2 war chariots + 1 knight healing inside the city of Mano. We'll see how this area looks next turn and decide.



We planted another city this turn, the offshore island city directly on top of the silver: Splendid Isolation (or as much of it will fit). This is a piece of crap city, but perhaps not as crappy as you might think:



Trade route bonanza! Let's give a big thanks to the Great Lighthouse for all of those 3 commerce trade routes. We're going to get another settler for the much better crabs/marble location off to the east in a few more turns, which is also a very strategic location south of CFC. Probably won't be founded for about 10 more turns, but we're working towards it.

Overview:

We set the research to 60%, the lowest rate where we can finish Alphabet this turn. There doesn't seem to be any real reason to wait and run 100% next turn, since Alphabet has a lot of benefits (lets us see techs of other teams, build Research, build spies, etc.) We will probably build up gold for some time afterwards in preparation for a Printing Press run. We actually have a Great Person coming out of the National Epic city in 7 turns, and it's about 50% odds for a Great Scientist. If we would get one, we probably use it for Printing Press and then research the remaining beakers. (We'll definitely get another Great Person out of that city before discovering Communism.) In any case, building up gold for a little while seems likely.

Let me know if there are any other suggestions for city builds. We can't end our turn until WPC decides what to do with their stack, and we can move our war chariot up there. We offered another map trade with them in-game, and requested again that they stay around Warendorf instead of running into the tundra.



Demos suck in GNP and look great in everything else. This will continue to be the case until our war is finished and the captured cities come out of resistance / begin developing. We are making very steady progress, 4 cities taken in 4 turns, and I'm reasonably pleased with how we've played thus far. Just don't get me started on how badly WPC has done in the war...

Here is the Livestream recording for the curious. Thanks all. http://www.twitch.tv/rbciv/b/418789750

[scooter]

Watched the stream. Nice work, and thanks as usual.

Also, bigger fish to fry currently and all that to build too many settlers, but I am all in favor of spamming a bunch of garbage island cities down there at the south pole. GLH + island cities + foreign routes = every city is easily worth it (we already hit the max for # city maintenance right?). Also we're FIN so coast makes it solid too.

[pindicator]

We should swap SolitaryIsolate to build a granary first

I do agree with Sullla that there are times where a lighthouse first is the correct way. But because we are EXP, I think granary always wins out just because we can have it up twice as fast as a lighthouse. I figured out building lighthouse and granary in the city and growing back to size 4. Assuming we get a missionary in place for all whips, here's a couple timelines to compare:

Lighthouse First:

turn 0 - found city
t10 - end of turn: reach size 2, 11/60 in lighthouse
t22 - end of turn: reach size 3, 23/60 in lighthouse
t23 - whip lighthouse, now at size 2
t25 - whip granary, now at size 1
t30 - end of turn: reach size 2
t33 - end of turn: reach size 3
t37 - end of turn: reach size 4

Granary First:

turn 0 - found city
t10 - end of turn: reach size 2, 22/60 in granary
t11 - whip granary, now at size 1
t12 - end of turn: lighthouse at 17/60
t21 - end of turn: reach size 2, 26/60 in lighthouse
t22 - whip lighthouse, now at size 1 but 11/22 food due to granary
t25 - end of turn: reach size 2
t28 - end of turn: reach size 3
t32 - end of turn: reach size 4

Please double check this on your own, but I think granary first is the correct play

[NobleHelium]

Yes, we should build the granary first. The granary doubles our food surplus of +2 to effectively +4, and a lighthouse will give us +2 food bonus to become +4 after growing to size two. However a lighthouse is twice as expensive as a granary.

[Fintourist]

Aaaand vote for granary!

[kjn]

Thanks for the outline, Pindicator. I had the same thought of going granary first, but hadn't gotten around to flesh it out. Also, getting a missionary there will be quite valuable, worth at least 14H.

I wasn't around for the last part of the stream, but why a barracks in French Riviera? Is the plan to work the horse this turn, and cottage the next for growth in 2t? I assume we will whip out another settler from here soon? The clock is ticking since CFC are likely to discover one or both of the silver resources to the east next turn.

[kjn]

In a way, I think going to war with the Germans with WPC might be viewed as a strategic mistake. Imagine what we and the Germans could have done to WPC…

But that's water long under the bridge now.

That is some of the silliest "Monday morning Quarterbacking" I have ever read. What would have been the use of attacking WPC for us? Would that land fit into our empire? The war strategy was fine. WPC built a terrible army and used it even more terribly. Still, at this point we have captured several cities and hopefully will capture several more. If we lose every single maceman, who cares? Capturing land and neutering our neighbor is far more important than a bunch of drafted, soon-to-be-useless cannon fodder.

Technically, I was just as involved in the decision to ally with WPC against the Germans as anyone here, so I wouldn't call it Monday morning Quarterbacking. I also agree that the German lands fits better with ours than WPC's does.

But WPC has consistently underperformed, especially in war, while the Germans are reasonably competent. If we could have kept the Germans as a buffer against Apolyton and a solid friend while we absorbed much of WPC's land, I would feel much better going up against an Apolyton-CFC-CivPlayers dogpile.

So this is not a criticism about how we've conducted the war, it's a question if we fought the right war from the highest strategic level.

[Qgqqqqq]

I think we would struggled to organize such an action, and the land would also fit awkwardly. German competence would also mean Germans wanting more territory, and our territory would be squeezed between them.
All moot of course.

[novice]

(we already hit the max for # city maintenance right?)

I don't think so. What was the net cost of Splendid Isolation, when factoring in changes in empire-wide costs?

And yes, granary before lighthouse.