Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[novice]

ALERT: We may want to pillage the road (and thus the city ruins first) where the former German city is. If Apolyton swaps to a settler in Bursa and then whips it on t157, they can re-plant the city there on t158 before we can log in and thus invalidate our city location. No other city locations that would invalidate our site can be planted on that turn, because they're all on or past hills that are not roaded.

Do they have construction?

[NobleHelium]

Hmmm, no they do not (as of Sulla's post-Alphabet post). That's good. They can of course put some workers on the hills (notably the grass hill 1E of the stone) to road them before the settler comes out, but I'm assuming that's unlikely.

[NobleHelium]

They did research PP t154, so conceivably they could finish Construction t156 (the current turn) I think. It's not exactly expensive at this point. The settler would come out t157 (next turn).

[kjn]

If Apolyton has Construction, they got it this turn (ie T156).

[antisocialmunky]

I was under the impression that our missed by 1 turn bad luck only applies to move that would win us the game.

[novice]

They did research PP t154, so conceivably they could finish Construction t156 I think. It's not exactly expensive at this point. The settler would come out t157.

Let's pillage it to be safe, our war chariot there will have to do the deed on t156 and t157.

[NobleHelium]

If Apolyton has Construction, they got it this turn (ie T156).

You mean they might have gotten it last turn. Yeah, that's a possibility too.

We can pillage both the ruins and the road this turn, we have two moves.

[NobleHelium]

All the production and research dates in my previous posts were eot dates, in case that's not obvious.

[Zargon]

I don't know how to evaluate the cost-benefit, but it might even be legit to whip out a courthouse in Starfall for the same reason, waiting a bunch of turns, of course, possibly doing it shortly before we get gunpowder, because drafting maces right before gunpowder is kind of crappy.

I was driving for 9 hours today, and my book on tape turned out to be a dud, so I had lots of thinking time, and so...

---

In which I argue we should whip a courthouse in Starfall, as soon as further drafted maces from Starfall won't help our current war:

We're about to make the decision to trade a bunch of population for a bunch of courthouses in a bunch of cities. If it makes sense for, say, The Covenant or Forbidden Fruit, it makes sense for Starfall. A Starfall courthouse will be among the very best courthouses once we get our city count up to 30, even though it never gets bigger than size 6. So if we're holding off on drafting those other cities up to their happy cap in favor of whipping the pop for a courthouse, it makes just as much sense to do it for Starfall, too.

Additionally, whipping a courthouse in Starfall makes nice things happen with respect to the overflow. (I haven't actually played Civ 4 in a long time, and I never did this kind of math when I did play, so I might have errors).

Without the whip, we'll need to run a turn of the plains hill, giving up 3 food (which is 3/14 of a future draft - almost certainly a musket) to complete the walls by turn 175 without whipping it. Then if war breaks out on 175, we'll need a 3 pop whip to finish the castle. I think the first turn we can 2 pop whip the castle in that case is turn 178. (On turn 155 walls needs 44 hammers. Get 2 per turn, plus 10 extra for the PH turn, finishes on turn 172. Then the castle needs 10 hammers to become 2 pop whippable, so it can be done on turn 178.)

If we whip the courthouse, we lose 2 turns of production on the walls, and get in return (2 hammers + 135 whip hammers = 137 modified hammers, 17 overflow hammers, making 11 unmodified overflow hammers). Those 11 overflow hammers become 26 modified hammers, meaning the walls complete on turn 166 (44 hammers to go - 26 = 18 remaining, so 9 turns, plus the 2 for the whip, so 11 turns from 155). Then the castle becomes 2 pop whippable on turn 172 if it turns out we need it.

If we can't secure a NAP with CFC (which seems plausible, though not definite) and it's turn 174, I think we have to whip the castle, because they could declare 2nd half of turn 175 and walk up to Starfall, and we then can't whip the castle out in time.

So basically, the cost isn't 3 maces, it's more like 2, and the courthouse will be worth 6-7 gpt as soon as it finishes (depending on how fast we do it), 8 gpt shortly thereafter, and drop to 3.5 with state property. Plus the 2.5 EpT, and I think this game is likely to turn espionage heavy as soon as people realize that we're the leaders, and they can't actually attack us. I wouldn't be surprised if we find ourselves running constant counterespionage missions against 4 teams in 50-75 turns.

Edit: Actual costs and values are harder to figure, after an error in my assumptions was pointed out by NH, and not quite as high as I posted here. The Starfall courthouse probably won't go to 8gpt, though it will probably make 7gpt after more cities. It won't be a top-end courthouse, but rather an average one. I still think it's probably a good idea, but I'm much less firm in my conviction.

[NobleHelium]

Courthouses are very good and I'd probably build them close to everywhere. However you're incorrect and distance maintenance also goes up by population.