Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[Bigger]

So now Aggressive Zulu (with ikhanda almost) and HRE (with Rathaus) don't pay city maintenance?

org HRE pretty much never paid city maintenance, even in BTS

[novice]

I think the VS express editions are free (possibly for non-commercial use only) but you need to register.

[Krill]

And we're beliving Seven like he has the only wisdom? It might have been junk, but now after you've already added Aqueducts and Markets you put up yet another boost. I can't help feeling this is getting overboard.

I think it's far to say that EXP in PB8 and PB5 fell off pretty quickly, and the starting strength of the trait at T0 wasn't that strong. The main disagreement between players was how useful the trait was when used in different strategies. But as you say, perhaps Aqueducts, Markets and hammers in cities is too much, if not from the PoV of power but from bloat.

Yes Expansive sucked in this past version, and adding cheap markets and powering up the worker boost helps, but adding a hammer to most cities in addition to those changes really feels like overkill to me. Not crazy about that at.

The worker boosts were present in PB5 and PB8 (as were the cheap grocers), so really the only new stuff are the cheap markets and the hammer (if Aqueducts aren't added which is fine IMO).

[Krill]

I decided to download VS2010 express edition (older free versions seem to have disappeared from internet) so I took a look at current Rbmod. Not sure yet if I'm capable to make working dlls, but I noticed that change log has missed this change T-Hawk has made to CvMap.cpp:
For a toroidal map, return max plot distance as if it is cylindrical. For purpose of city maintenance costs only (called from CvCity::calculateDistanceMaintenanceTimes100)

Not sure if the code works, but it is added there with above comment.

This seems to be evaluation version. does anybody know about free versions of studio or how much this actually costs, if I want to buy it?

I checked the thread, it looks like this was an old change that was done that wasn't documented properly. I'll add it to the change log.

Thank you for discovering this, Plako

[Commodore]

My 2c, try making Expansive Hippus before half-AP. +1h in just the capital might be enough with Aqueducts and Markets.

[scooter]

My 2c, try making Expansive Hippus before half-AP. +1h in just the capital might be enough with Aqueducts and Markets.

Agree with this.

Here's my thought process: Expansive was very weak in the last iteration of the mod, but it wasn't unplayable, and I don't even think it was the worst of the traits (absolutely it was in the conversation as one of the worst, though). I would rather a boost be too soft and the trait simply be mediocre than a boost be too strong and it becomes an uber-trait the results in somebody running away with PB13. Too small of a buff is a lot more forgiving than too strong, and when we're running these changes with 0 testing, caution is the best course of action.

[Krill]

Just clarifying: You do understand that it is only +1 hpt IF you have a 1 hammer capital tile? It doesn't trigger on 2 hammer plants (read: shouldn't trigger and it's buggy if it does that's why there is basic bug testing).

Do you still think that's too strong a buff?

[scooter]

Just clarifying: You do understand that it is only +1 hpt IF you have a 1 hammer capital tile? It doesn't trigger on 2 hammer plants (read: shouldn't trigger and it's buggy if it does that's why there is basic bug testing).

Do you still think that's too strong a buff?

Yeah, I understand. The only way to get a 3h plant at the beginning should still be stone/marble on a plains hill.

I think that + markets is a good buff, but is very likely to leave Expansive as a middling trait. I do fear the impact of letting every city do that, though, which is why I'd prefer to play it safe. At least, every city doing that + a ton of half-price buildings just feels risky without playtesting.

[SevenSpirits]

FWIW I would guess that the min-2-hammer city tiles would approximately double the value of EXP and therefore make it the best trait by a small margin.

[pindicator]

FWIW I would guess that the min-2-hammer city tiles would approximately double the value of EXP and therefore make it the best trait by a small margin.

Yeah, I think it's going to be a pretty good advantage. 2h tiles are sometimes mitigated by the fact that you don't always get them where you want them.