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Can we vote on reloads for misclicks? I'm a very strong "NO" on this, in almost all circumstances other than something as extreme as converting to AI. Even then, I think it might even be reasonable to have to live with the single AI turn of moves.
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I think he's being facetious...
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(July 17th, 2013, 09:21)WilliamLP Wrote: Can we vote on reloads for misclicks? I'm a very strong "NO" on this, in almost all circumstances other than something as extreme as converting to AI. Even then, I think it might even be reasonable to have to live with the single AI turn of moves.
I really don't to devolve into a game where we need a rule for every single edge case. For reloads, I think we can just keep the PB5/PB8 "don't be a jerk about things" rule which should cover reloads. Misclicked and lost a worker turn? Don't ask for a reload, that's crazy. Accidentally convert yourself to AI severely impacting the game? That's significant, so I don't see a problem with that so long as it doesn't significantly impact spoiler knowledge or combat. Anything in between, just don't be dumb, and feel free to ask the lurkers if they think a reload is justified.
July 17th, 2013, 09:35
(This post was last modified: July 17th, 2013, 09:37 by WilliamLP.)
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Actually no. We know it's alt+Q that does it. The alt key in Civ should be viewed with the same kind of paranoia as typing "rm -rf *" in Linux, imo. You'd better be sure you know what context you're in. I won't defend this extreme point too hard, but I would like a game where people are more careful about moves and whips to move the turn pace smoothly. I'm happy to be outvoted but the issue causes enough controversy and ill-will that I think it's worth clarifying when reloads happen before the game starts.
Edit:
> Misclicked and lost a worker turn? Don't ask for a reload, that's crazy.
Yes but there's a whole continuum in between where reloads have been granted that make me uneasy. Specific examples would spoil many other games. It's a situation that screws the nice guy who would take it on the chin and not ask for a reload in a situation where another would. (And they would get it.)
July 17th, 2013, 09:49
(This post was last modified: July 17th, 2013, 10:01 by Gavagai.)
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(July 17th, 2013, 09:35)WilliamLP Wrote: Actually no. We know it's alt+Q that does it.
It's not the only possible reason.
Edit. Also, please, keep in mind that many misclicks don't happen in vacuum, they can happen because of problems with connections and software. There are also outright bugs like having the production queue cleared and production lost.
Completely different question is how important such things are. In most cases they are inconsequential. In my games I had a wonder delayed for one turn due to this bug with production queue (in what seemed to be a pretty hot race), micro heavily messed up due to one accidental click while the game was paused, etc. I didn't ask for a reload for any of those issues as they seemed not important enough. But in certain cases they can be game-breaking and such cases definitely deserve a reload.
(I'm dedlurking Bacchus, so I have some stake in this discussion. Of course, it shouldn't be interpreted as an official opinion of our team.)
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Basically I don't like the status quo for how reloads are permitted on this site, and I'm wondering if I'm the only one. There have been several occasions where someone asked for a reload and said something to the effect of "This really should be denied but I'll ask anyway". This is absurd to me. I think it should only be for something beyond human control, and that has drastic negative consequences for another player. I also value a smooth turn pace very much.
I don't mean to debate excessively and this is my last post on the topic.
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Its pretty easy imo: If it is a bug, reload. If it is your own ineptitude learn to live with it. In uncertain cases, ask for a pause in the tech-thread and put it forward to the lurkers and BRick. They don't necessarily reflect the opinion of all players, but I think they will know good enough for the most part if a reload is warranted or not and also who and what else might be affected.
Also, game-breaking is relative. If you mismove because you clicked around while paused I guess you learned your lesson not to click around... I mean really, how hard can it be to put a little bit of attention to the game you are playing? Or alternatively to take responsibility for what happened due to inattention...
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How do you get the production bar cleared bug?
I'm fine with whatever regarding reloads.
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Just so its known we will be playing with 17 teams, the only player to express interest in the sign up thread said he would rather try and team with a player already signed up.
July 17th, 2013, 10:28
(This post was last modified: July 17th, 2013, 10:33 by Bacchus.)
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Personally, I prefer to play against the opponent's intelligence and planning, not his manual dexterity or attentiveness to cursor positioning. So, as far as reloads are of low cost in terms of time and are not abused, I actually prefer them to happen. Of course, the reload isn't instant, there is always some cost in time, and currently a reload over the weekend costs that whole weekend, so I would really appreciate that whoever asks for reload is cognizant of the fact. The situation in PB12 did get pretty ludicrous, but that was in combination with power outages. So "don't be a jerk" gets my vote, FWIW.
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