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Poll: How then shall we play?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Repeat the mistakes and glories of the past!
22.41%
13 22.41%
Wallow in bitterness and rage!
15.52%
9 15.52%
Peace out blissfully and love everyone!
15.52%
9 15.52%
Iron Terminator, Win Above All Else!
20.69%
12 20.69%
Die to Barbarians.
25.86%
15 25.86%
Total 58 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

 
[spoilers]Oh Canada! Victoria has a Commodore, eh?

Might as well start the player/civ analysis:

The 7 Krill Spirits (sensitive, irascible) as King Krill (Agg, Exp) of Atlantis (Flight, Fusion)
[Image: Flying_Stone_Fish.jpg]
The Eighteenth Civilization was destined to rule them all, but the Kings of Atlantis defied the creators of the world. And so their lands were sunk beneath the seas
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Can't properly format due to on my phone but you know the drill: Victoria of Portugal
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(July 17th, 2013, 09:42)BRickAstley Wrote: Can't properly format due to on my phone but you know the drill: Victoria of Portugal

KEEP
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LIBERUM VETO

What are you, a Russian soldier?!

So we have that:
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of banks.
Imperialistic: Double-speed Custom Houses (At least this gives Imp something on water maps. For flavor, Custom Houses are very mercantile, which is what 17th century Imperialism was). +60% Settler Production.
No gg points... But our UB builds faster!
Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.
60 hammer Collosus.

KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
Yeah, I'm not happy about my past behaviour either. shakehead
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Commodorumi (archerrusher, sprawler) as Victoria (Fin, Imp) of Portugal (Fishing, Mining)
[Image: VictoriaBeckham.jpg]
Oh, oh very much yes. Victoria is a classic leader with a strong economy trait paired with a good expansion trait In RBmod, she is very mildly weaker, with Fin no longer active on river tiles but getting cheap banks, and Imp boosting to 60% settler production and cheap Custom Houses...but in this case, that's cheap fetorias, which are already cheaper. So for 60 hammers, Victoria gets a mini-Colossus in any city she owns. And that's Fin Colossus, so oceans 3, coasts 4. She can REX throughout the seven seas, and carracks mean she can claim all the over-ocean little cruddy islands first. Who cares about endgame hammers? Banks and super-coast will mean a rushbuy economy.

Now, there are some disadvantages. None of the "fundamental" buildings are cheap, so early savings on the settler aside, cities set up slowly. Also, notwithstanding the mild boost of +100% GG points, we're not exactly fully loaded in the military department; this is very much a combo that wants to expand in peace. Finally, if we're one of the more inland starters, our civ is basically a nullity, although Fin and Imp are still good traits...cottaging early and often will be the plan.
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OMFG.

I forgot about Feitorias.

motherfucker

Brick, start him on a 1 tile island.

Wait. That's helping him. crazyeye
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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IMP, FIN fetorias on B&S. It's ALL THE SYNERGY.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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(July 17th, 2013, 20:12)Merovech Wrote: IMP, FIN fetorias on B&S. It's ALL THE SYNERGY.
I might try for Colossus too. You see, Portugal can avoid Astronomy for a while...
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Right, so I'm going to be adding links to these in the first reply. Here's some player thoughts.

The Veterans Who Will Win (Also Strongest Rolls, Poor Newbies):

Noble Pindicooter (astute, talkative) as Darius (Fin, Org) of the Vikings (Hunting, Fishing)
[Image: The_Vikings_were_hated_everywhere.jpg]
Wow. And I thought I had a good roll. With the nerfing of Will Orange and Pacal, I'm pretty sure Darius is the best Financial leader now, certainly in contention. The Vikings are murder, pure and simple...Nav1 on all boats on a water map, and berserkers to wreck anything off of those fast longships...this is probably the best possible water combo here.

Their disadvantages are few. Like me, they have a civ that's a bit of a nullity if they start inland, but Darius of Nullity is still a good start. This is slow out of the gate, particularly with a grains/chopping start, but I feel confident they can manage. Land-wise they have nothing going for them militarily, but in the water...blech.

Serdoa (troglodyte, formidable) as Mansa Musa (Fin, Spi) of America (Fishing, Agriculture)
[Image: taqt2_09.jpg]
Remember what I said about Darius as the best Financial leader now? Mansa is his competition for the slot. Spiritual is unchanged, but civics are generally improved and Serdoa has the skills to (ab)use the trait to the fullest. This is a strong generalist combination; Mansa is good anywhere and the new USA, while hardly a top civ, is very much improved, with a grocer that adds happy and rifles that start with a useful pair of promotions. Techs are fine, averageish.

The weakness here is another fairly slow start. The nontrivial advantage of a free early Slavery swap aside, Fin/Spi don't give much starting turns advantage, and if he wants either Pottery or Bronze working it takes two nonoverlapping techs. Still, with Jack of All Trades leader and Jack of All Trades civ, this is a good roll for a good player.

Plako (robot, flawless) as Ragnar (Fin, Agg) of Maya (Mysticism, Mining)
[Image: 1-rangar.gif]
Okay, here's where I start to feel bad for the newbies. This is the fourth of veteran with a good leader/civ roll. Ragnar is much much more powerful in RBmod, gaining synergy with the barracks change, -25% maintenance reduction in cities, and a few more cheap buildings. Maya is nothing too special, but Agg holkans mean Plako won't be getting choked and Ball Courts are handy for happiness even at full cost.

The weakest element for Maya is actually the tech set; that's a lot of research to do before it gets food, making it something of a slow starter, which Raggy isn't exactly helping either. Still, this is very strong combo for the strongest player in the game by far. Yikes.

Lewger (bold, delusional) as Gandhi (Spi, Phi) of China (Agriculture, Mining)
[Image: chinese+elderly.jpg]
Okay, we're leaving the veterans-with-Financial territory, but hardly the veterans-with-good-leaders theme. Gandhi is still 100% Old Gandhi, without any change at all...except even better civics to (ab)use. He's a slow starter, but that's fine because China is still China, solid starter with great techs and good, if not incredible, UUs.

The weaknesses here aren't all that great. Gandhi needs a pretty active hand to take full advantage of his power, and Lewwyn can be a bit slapdash about his planning from time to time. China is neon pink, which is annoying to work with at times. Yeah, sorry, not a lot of holes to pick in this one.
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Fun/Interesting/Strong Combos:

Yuri (okay, relaxed) as Mehmed (Exp, Org) of the Ottomen (Agriculture, Wheel)
[Image: 348_ottoman.jpg]
So, Restricted Leader time! As restricted combos go, this one is decent. Normally I feel the Ottomen to be overrated, and they are, but doubled production of Hammams is a real benefit, making them a pretty good deal (50h for +2 smile) and in the much slower tech pace of a large sprawling Normal-speed Pitboss Janissaries have a longer useful window. Agriculture/Wheel is still strong, and just because Org was reverted to BtS doesn't make it weak. I could work with this.

Yuri's going to have an interesting game here. His lack of major weaknesses in the combo is paired with a lack of major strengths, and likewise Yuri, while a good builder and not incompetent on the offense, lacks a certain verve at times and tends to fall badly on the defending side. Still, I expect him to do well overall.

Ichabod (friendly, The People's Champion) as Shaka (Agg, Exp) of Greece (Hunting, Fishing)
[Image: grease.jpg]
Ah, here we go, this is the quality I was expecting from a random roll. There is some nice potential here; if Ichabod gets a Fish start his Exp-WB will be slammed out in no time flat, and of course Aggressive Phalanx mean never having to say you're sorry, at least until Horse Archers. Agg, as mentioned, is massively improved to a top-tier trait and Exp is better than it was.

Non-Creative odeons aren't spam-worthy, but having a decent pricetag for +2 smile and some artist slots is handy enough. This isn't a terribly weak combination, but it's a little less actively economical than some others. Ichabod will nonetheless have a blast; Greece is fun.

Jowy (stubborn, thick) as Pacal (Exp, Fin) of India (Mysticism, Wheel)
[Image: Welcome-to-India-tv-serie-010.jpg]
Um. Well. Huh. This isn't BtS, so I guess I'm glad of that. At this point, I think I'm definitely downgrading my own combo to "average". Pacal is still a bad, bad man, losing a lot with his cheap granaries and Fin riverside gone, but gaining in the exchange a boost building all the gold modifiers. India, likewise, isn't as good as with 3-move fast workers, but Mobility workers are still ballin' and in some cases better.

Weaknesses. Right. Um. Bad techs? Kind of not very martial? Words largely fail me here.

CFCJFNAKOR (singleplayer, inflexible) as Wang Kon (Pro, Fin) of Rome (Fishing, Mining)
[Image: praetorian2.jpg]
Yehah. Wow, these random rolls...Wang Kon is an excellent leader; what Pacal lost, he gained. Rome is weirdly nerfbuffed here, the excellent Praetorians now very much lackluster (sans Aggressive) while the Forum improved to being actually relevant. This is number 23982 of the combos that will do well with fish. Overall, pretty nice.

On the other hand, overall, not very scary. Non-Agg Praets are defensive, Pro is defensive, and this is a builder set. Not very scary on the field of battle. But the same could be said for others of us.

Bacchus (dunno, who) as Suryavaman (Cre, Exp) of Carthage (Fishing, Mining)
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAb337akluron2d853mWL...BDQTPXVNaq]
Oh hey look, it's another water civ that want to have a fishing start! Not like there aren't a ton more of these around! I like this combo. It's not the best combo, but I like this combo. Expansive Cothons are basically little mini-Great Lighthouses for a low low price, and both weak traits have been very respectfully buffed in this version of the mod. I expect these guys to rocket out of the gates, and if they play it right they need never stop. I miss the incredibly unique Numidians of BtS, but a HA with free C1 never goes amiss.

...but playing it right is going to be a challenge. The cheap buildings are all nice, but later on in a city's lifecycle. Exp/Cre can settle fast, but keeping up with the expansion's speed is going to have even a Cothon-boosted economy wheezing and coughing. Warmongery might be problematic too, although the easy access to amphibious horse archers will be a boost. I'll reserve judgement here for now.
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