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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
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Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves
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(July 23rd, 2013, 06:23)Shoot the Moon Wrote: And what's the status on universe as well? Expanding, cooling, partially luminous, mostly void. A small number of barely sentient beings on an insignificant rock amuse themselves by exchanging pulses of light to earnestly discuss shared experiences of a crude simulation represented by polarized photons.
The 25 minutes is for CivPlayers and not us...
Civilization IV: 21 (Bismarck of Mali), 29 (Mao Zedong of Babylon), 38 (Isabella of China), 45 (Victoria of Sumeria), PB12 (Darius of Sumeria), 56 (Hammurabi of Sumeria), PB16 (Bismarck of Mali), 78 (Augustus of Byzantium), PB56 (Willem of China)
Hearthstone: ArenaDrafts Profile No longer playing Hearthstone. 
I logged in and unpaused the game as soon as I saw that message. Also ended our turn, since there didn't seem to be any remaining issues to discuss. We still have until CFC ends turn to make any changes.
Chat with Apolyton:
Chat with Apolyton Wrote:scooter Alright, so next order of business is to draft this agreement, then send it to Apolyton, CivPlayers, and CFC. If we can get all 3 of those guys to agree, I'll be extremely happy.
Suggested draft/agreement:
EP Deal Draft Wrote:MZ, I think I'd like to get Apolyton's official agreement before sending the official proposal to other teams, but I can contact CFC/CivPlayers by chat soon to feel things out.
We can bring it up with CFC, but if they're smart, they'll never ever agree. They're spiritual, spy revolts against them are like a slap in the face, whereas they're like getting run over by a truck for us. If we were spiritual, we'd laugh privately and politely decline.
So I propose we attack this from the other direction: Quote:* All those who sign this agreement also promise to cease open borders and trading, as soon as the game allows, with any team who uses civic or religion swap missions against a team who has signed this agreement. Once we get Apolyton on board with that, we extend it to everyone in the game individually, not just CP and CFC. CFC is the only spiritual civ left, I bet we could get a bunch of people on board. I actually wouldn't mention it to CFC until we get several others on board so they don't start working the phones against our treaty until after it's taken hold.
Is there anything stopping the very real possibility of the signers gifting gold to other civs so they can run the EP slider versus us and civic swap us?
There's virtually nothing we can do to stop teams from using (abusing) the utterly broken civics/religion revolt feature, other than appeal to their honor and sense of fair play. We may as well try a diplomatic solution, since we're essentially powerless against this until we can build Cristo Redentor much, much later.
scooter, now that you're back and presumably have some more time, can you try to catch CFC in chat and ask them about our NAP proposal? It's been quite a while since we sent that over, and their complete silence is not encouraging.
Had a quick chat with Yossarian from CFC about the NAP situation:
Chat with CFC Wrote:scooter So they have a poll for it now, so we should hear back pretty soon. Also, it's been 5-6 days since the original proposal, so that's not actually that long. I got into the WPC a bit because I wanted to pre-emptively squash the idea that it we unfairly treated WPC, but rather they dug their own grave. (July 23rd, 2013, 10:26)scooter Wrote: Suggested draft/agreement: Suggested edit: Quote:* All those who sign this agreement promise to never use civic or religion swap spy missions, or directly aid other civs with the express purpose of aiding that civ in utilizing civic or religion swap spy missions, for the remainder of the game against any other team that signs this agreement. This agreement will remain in effect regardless of whether the teams that sign this agreement are at war or peace with each other, and it is fully independent of all other deals. My concern is exactly what Sunrise and Zargon have expressed, that we tie our hands by agreeing to this. Apolyton and CivPlayers could hypothetically agree to this deal so they won't have to fear us running missions against them, and meanwhile they will enjoy the benefits of CFC using this against us. If the deal does not expressly forbid them aiding CFC (giving gold, etc), they can each give gpt to CFC and let CFC just abuse the espionage that much further, without fear of reprisal. I really think for this to work it has to be an all or nothing proposition. Either all teams agree, or it ends in a one-sided abuse. 
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