Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[Nicolae Carpathia]

To be fair they can't switch us out of Nationalism if they're in Nationalism themselves.

[NobleHelium]

Sure, but they can switch out of it for five turns if they're Spiritual.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Yeah I really can't make light of how potentially fucked we are if our enemies go all-in on us.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, because I was probably wrong beforehand, but we can only draft 4 times per turn on a huge map?

[novice]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, because I was probably wrong beforehand, but we can only draft 4 times per turn on a huge map?

5 times a turn on huge.

[Speaker]

Yeah I really can't make light of how potentially fucked we are if our enemies go all-in on us.

Honestly, this is all a bunch of doom and gloom. Has any dogpile ever gone "all-in?" What's the incentive for each team? Ideally, they will want to all put in as little as possible, and still get the job done. I am not super worried about Apolyton. They have played Sim City for 160 turns. Do you really think they are going to double and triple draft their cities for Janissaries and Rifles, and whip their cities into the ground for catapults, and hope that Civplayers does the same? CFC has had the same amount of turns in war as we have. Do you think they are going to get right back to warring, without having any time to consolidate their gains? That is surely a losing strategy for them. No, I think most of this is overblown, that Apolyton will simply draft enough to feel secure, all the while trying to be good little builders, that Civplayers will keep playing lazily and un-invested-ly, and that CFC will consolidate their spoils from their conquest, continue to skirmish with CivFR, and keep being annoying in diplomacy. I think they enjoy the metagame more than the actual game.

[Old Harry]

How long would it take to get a chariot or knight over to the CFC/CivFr warzone to see what is actually going on?

[antisocialmunky]

Realistically the worst case scenario of 3 teams throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us is only feasible if there's some sort of 'Anyone But RB Must Win' Cartel and really close team work. I don't think either condition will happen because our neighbors aren't as single minded as Commodore and they probably aren't allied with each other yet.

[sunrise089]

Realistically the worst case scenario of 3 teams throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us is only feasible if there's some sort of 'Anyone But RB Must Win' Cartel and really close team work. I don't think either condition will happen because our neighbors aren't as single minded as Commodore and they probably aren't allied with each other yet.

In this thread people have said we have a 95% chance of winning. With those odds why wouldn't other teams want to throw everything into chaos and let the chips fall whee they may?

Honestly, this is all a bunch of doom and gloom. Has any dogpile ever gone "all-in?" What's the incentive for each team?

I think there are a number of reasons to doubt our enemies can pull off a dogpile, but I also don't think it's impossible. It happened in RBP1 (rifles vs infantry!) and was totally effective. Scooter reminds me in chat that tech trading is different, but we're pretty far from rifles ourselves and drafted maces aren't much worse than our drafted muskets. For a 3-civ dogpile Apolyton wouldn't need tech trading for us to be attacked at basically tech parity.

Even in RBP2 if two things happen differently (India doesn't flip one of the dogpilers back to their side; Rome doesn't mis-move their units) the game outcome might not change, but India would have had a much tougher-fought victory.

I'm not advocating doing anything differently here. I think we're in great shape and so far the potential enemy buildup is modest. Worrying may be doom-and-gloom after all, but I also think there are still reasons for a dogpile to make sense and ways they can succeed.

[WilliamLP]

Looking at the game theory and not the Civ details, I think Zargon is irrefutable. Plan for the unlikely worst case because in every other case the game is in the bag anyway.

[antisocialmunky]

Realistically the worst case scenario of 3 teams throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us is only feasible if there's some sort of 'Anyone But RB Must Win' Cartel and really close team work. I don't think either condition will happen because our neighbors aren't as single minded as Commodore and they probably aren't allied with each other yet.

In this thread people have said we have a 95% chance of winning. With those odds why wouldn't other teams want to throw everything into chaos and let the chips fall whee they may?

Self interest, some of you guys gave crap to L&C in that LP Farmer's gambit PB for not going all in and to that GLH team that allied with LP. The game was clearly going to be decided by that last war but that didn't stop people from trying to win. In addition this has to be coordinated effort in attacking us or it ends up like PB2 where it just became a colossal staggered mess.

Honestly, this is all a bunch of doom and gloom. Has any dogpile ever gone "all-in?" What's the incentive for each team?

I think there are a number of reasons to doubt our enemies can pull off a dogpile, but I also don't think it's impossible. It happened in RBP1 (rifles vs infantry!) and was totally effective. Scooter reminds me in chat that tech trading is different, but we're pretty far from rifles ourselves and drafted maces aren't much worse than our drafted muskets. For a 3-civ dogpile Apolyton wouldn't need tech trading for us to be attacked at basically tech parity.

Even in RBP2 if two things happen differently (India doesn't flip one of the dogpilers back to their side; Rome doesn't mis-move their units) the game outcome might not change, but India would have had a much tougher-fought victory.

I'm not advocating doing anything differently here. I think we're in great shape and so far the potential enemy buildup is modest. Worrying may be doom-and-gloom after all, but I also think there are still reasons for a dogpile to make sense and ways they can succeed.

TT seems to one of the keys to a successful dogpile because it allows backwards players who may only be interested in having fun (because their mindset is we can't win alone so lets go out on our own terms) and by their very nature group players into close working blocs.

I would only be really worried if some sort of EE backdoor tech trading cartel emerged and all our neighbors stole the rifling techs from Poly.

Looking at the game theory and not the Civ details, I think Zargon is irrefutable. Plan for the unlikely worst case because in every other case the game is in the bag anyway.

Addendum: Plan your army for the worst case. When that doesn't happen, use it to murder everyone.