October 22nd, 2009, 13:10
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regoarrarr Wrote:Agreed that I think Sullla will try to grab a religion. And you are right that we can assess the opportunity cost once we see the map.
I also want us to consider some of the other Guilds options, besides the one we originally talked about (which I have labeled Option A)
Keeping in mind tech costs (not scaled) of
Math: 250
Currency: 400
MC: 450
Machinery: 700
Option A: Beeline Currency, whip market, hire 2 merchants, bulb Metal Casting, whip forge, bulb Machinery
Option B: Beeline Currency, whip market, hire 2 merchants, bulb Metal Casting, slow build Machinery (should be less than the 34 turns a GE will take, even considering that delays some of our other techs like Feudalism)
Option C: Use first GP on a Sci for an Academy, 2nd on a merchant for MC, slow-tech Machinery (faster with our Academy)
Option D: Use first GP on a Sci for an Academy, slow-research MC (maybe instead of Currency?), 2nd on the engineer for Machinery
Option E: Slow-tech MC (maybe instead of Currency), first GP on an Engineer for Machinery (17 turns instead of 34)
Option F: Oracle MC, first GP on an engineer for Machinery, 2nd on a scientist for an Academy
And possibly others
I prefer Option A. I'm not sure if Option F works - doesn't that give us a Prophet before we could possibly get an Engineer out.
I do like Secret Option G: Beeline Currency, whip market, hire 2 merchants, bulb Metal Casting, slow build Machinery, use Engineer generated in 34 turns to build the Pyramids.
October 22nd, 2009, 13:43
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Option F could work since a GE is 3GPP (6 for us) and the Oracle only produces 2 (4), so we have a bit of leeway. Though it is true that our 2nd person would likely be a prophet, though maybe we could hire scientists in the Oracle city to try and skew it (though if we found a religion, a prophet isn't horrible).
I lean towards Option A at this point but wanted to list out the other options so we are aware of them. As we get a bit more information, we can look at the costs / rewards / opportunity costs for the various options and make a more educated decision
October 22nd, 2009, 14:08
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B is slower, right? The beauty of this approach is we rely on bulbing to get one of the Guilds prereqs, freeing us to concentrate our beakers on the other prereq.
C/D have some possibility. If we sim it out and Feudalism/HBR/Iron Working are going to take close to:
>> ceil(100/12) + ceil(200/12) + ceil(300/6)
ans =
76
Then we have time to get three GPs out, and obviously the Academy will help reduce the overall time. Gut says probably not, but we should certainly check.
Like B, I think E is slower overall.
F and G are both viable options. I find F highly attractive, but I worry about the opportunity cost of The Oracle, especially with no guaranteed payout. I'd also be tempted to go for a Feudalism slingshot instead of Metal Casting, and do an F+A hybrid. If we happen to get a Prophet, well build a Shrine and slow research.
Anyway, A remains the safest route. I think A and G in fact are the same, we just have a (highly circumstances dependent) decision facing us if the GE is born an The Pyramids are available.
Darrell
October 22nd, 2009, 22:59
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The Incans have picked. We've been worried about them taking Bismark (Exp/Ind) since they would be the only Ind civ and have the awesome Exp+Inca synergy. We even thought about taking Bismark ourselves, in part to deny it to them. We need not have worried.
They did indeed take Exp. However they paired it with Org (Mehmed). To me, Org is a pretty darn meh trait on Monarch. Especially when Exp/Imp, Exp/Ind, Exp/Spi are available. Heck, I'd even take Exp/Cre.
Anyways, I was just pretty surprised...
October 23rd, 2009, 07:49
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Okay - everything is complete and there are 5 civs that start with Mysticism
athlete4life10 + kalin - Willem (Cre/Fin) of Ottoman
Broker33 + Plako - Ghandi (Phi/Spi) of Korea (Hwacha/Seowon)
Jowy + Yazilliclick - Pacal (Exp/Fin) of Greece (Phalanx/Odeon)
DMOC + Nakor - Darius (Fin/Org) of the Holy Roman Empire (Landsknecht/Rathaus)
Iamjohn + Kodii + Zevis - Mehmed (Exp/Org) of Inca (Quechua/Terrace)
Speaker + Sullla - Elizabeth (Fin/Phi) of India (Fast Worker/Mausoleum)
Mortius - Ragnar (Agg/Fin) of Zulu (Impi/Ikhanda)
Dantski - Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of Mali (Skirmisher/Mint)
LiPing - Shaka (Agg/Exp) of Rome (Praetorian/Forum)
Regoarrarr + darrelljs + sunrise089 - Peter (Exp/Phi) of Byzantium (Cataphract/Hippodrome)
Ottoman - Ag / Wheel
Korea - Mining / Myst
Greece - Fish / Hunt
HRE - Myst / Hunt
Inca - Ag / Myst
India - Myst / Mining
Zulu - Ag / Hunt
Mali - Mining / Wheel
Rome - Fishing / Mining
Byz - Myst / Wheel
October 23rd, 2009, 07:52
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Joined: Dec 2005
And here is the starting tech and trait breakdown
Mysticism - 5
Agriculture - 3
Wheel - 3
Mining - 4
Hunting - 3
Fishing - 2
Financial - 5
Philosophical - 3
Expansive - 3
Organized - 2
Aggressive - 2
Spiritual - 1
Creative - 1
Imperialistic - 1
No Industrious, Charismatic or Protective civs
October 23rd, 2009, 08:15
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sunrise089 Wrote:They did indeed take Exp. However they paired it with Org (Mehmed). To me, Org is a pretty darn meh trait on Monarch. Especially when Exp/Imp, Exp/Ind, Exp/Spi are available. Heck, I'd even take Exp/Cre.
I'd have ranked them:
Exp/Imp > Exp/Ind >>>>> Exp/Cre > ExpOrg = ExpSpi I guess. Definitely some really odd choices made.
Darrell
October 23rd, 2009, 08:33
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sunrise089 Wrote:Since huts are off if we go worker first I'd just like to keep our starting warrior at home.
I agree with this, and this:
regoarrarr Wrote:Mysticism - 5
Makes me think we'll be researching Worker techs first.
Darrell
October 23rd, 2009, 08:53
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darrelljs Wrote:I agree with this, and this:
Makes me think we'll be researching Worker techs first.
Darrell
I agree, but to play devil's advocate, wouldn't you think that it's likely that everyone that starts with Mysticism will say that, leaving the religions open? :neenernee
October 23rd, 2009, 09:32
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Slight goof, you missed Exp/Org Mehmed (the total should be 20):
regoarrarr Wrote:Financial - 5
Philosophical - 3
Expansive - 3 -> 4
Organized - 2 -> 3
Aggressive - 2
Spiritual - 1
Creative - 1
Imperialistic - 1
No Industrious, Charismatic or Protective civs
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