3:49:08 PM -
Xenu: Quick question from one of the team members. He's curious about when the dogpile coalition talks started and who started the conversation. If you don't want to answer that's OK, we'll just have to wait until you guys unlock your forums after the game ends I guess.
3:49:25 PM -
Xenu: (I guess everyone is going to do that? I'm pretty sure that's been our plan all along)
4:27:19 PM -
yton apol: balance at the top was always my concern, when we saw you are getting too strong it was natural that we look out for possible ally against you. I can't say who started it as we had similar idea. not exactly the same, but similar
4:27:58 PM -
yton apol: there was a time period when we were hesitant because it didn't seem a good idea to weaken you while cfc is getting stronger
4:29:02 PM -
yton apol: but after you got inca land for almost free, cfc got into war with maya, it become clear for us that we need some kind of agreement
4:29:40 PM -
Xenu: i wouldn't say we got inca for free by any stretch of the imagination. we drafted hard for maces and killed a lot of their army
4:29:42 PM -
yton apol: and once we agreed there was no turning back
4:29:50 PM -
Xenu: but yeah they should have made it harder
4:29:57 PM -
yton apol: i meant without real losses
4:30:18 PM -
Xenu: we did lose a lot of throw away maces
4:30:47 PM -
Xenu: but compared to what they could have done to us (for instance, if they had whipped a lot of longbows instead of war elephants), it should have been much worse
4:30:51 PM -
yton apol: we worried that once you get to rifling and start drafting the incan cities too you would become too strong so we needed to act as soon as possible
4:31:09 PM -
Xenu: you guys got it right. in 20 turns we would have probably had the game won
4:31:25 PM -
Xenu: maybe 30, i don't know the details since i don't log into the game
4:31:56 PM -
Xenu: but with their cottages and the ability to draft it would have been hard to kill that many rifles. then again...no one probably expect a full five team dogpile. i'm not sure anyone could stand up to that
4:32:07 PM -
yton apol: they were unprepared.. they did not have feudalism.. i think not even monarchy then. horseback riding was a much cheaper tech so they could start slaving stronger units faster. asking the maya to give them ivory was my idea btw
4:32:34 PM -
Xenu: ha, well thanks for getting them the ivory! turns out to have helped us quite a bit
4:33:06 PM -
Xenu: then again, maybe it helped doom us by letting us get too big. maybe if we had only eaten half of inca (and WPC hadn't been so bad in their attack and taken their half) we would have been better positioned to defend against the dogpile
4:33:52 PM -
Xenu: they teched monarchy/feudalism some time during the war, they could have been whipping longbows when it would have been painful to kill them. i just don't know why they didn't. i guess they were too worried about our knights, which we had only just begun building.
4:34:14 PM -
yton apol: tbh honest: i think you did well raising an army, but you made some questionable moves. our teams win loss ratio is over 2:1
4:34:32 PM -
Xenu: oh in the current conflict?
4:34:37 PM -
Xenu: we've made some mistakes for sure
4:34:38 PM -
yton apol: yes
4:35:14 PM -
Xenu: we're currently on our...third primary turn player? not to blame him at all, he's soldiering on without a lot of team input these days as you can imagine.
4:35:26 PM -
yton apol: you probably couldn't have won, but could had made our lives much worse
4:35:33 PM -
Xenu: but it didn't matter who was playing our turns though with five civs attacking us
4:35:46 PM -
yton apol: come on.. 4+1 chariot
4:35:50 PM -
Xenu: you can be a runaway in every demographics category but your output will never match 5 dedicated civs
4:35:52 PM -
Xenu: oops
4:36:00 PM -
Xenu: yeah forgot about WPC, they don't count too much. haha
4:36:09 PM -
yton apol: also believe me.. apolyton and cfc did not want maya involvment at all
4:36:09 PM -
Xenu: even so, 4 is a tough nut to crack
4:36:31 PM -
yton apol: we were surprised when we saw aztec bringing them
4:36:33 PM -
Xenu: i still don't know what they're up to, but i hope they deny cfc some of their cities. i hope they raze our east
4:37:37 PM -
yton apol: we don't talk with them, only civplayers, but according them they are not taking cities jsut accompany aztec troops.. no idea what they will get from this
4:38:00 PM -
Xenu: that seems strange. maybe they're farming our beat up units for XP at this poitn
4:40:28 PM -
Xenu: you know if you guys left us with one city we could keep war anger against civplayers and cfc, but it likely wouldn't affect you guys too much since you're grabbing our northern cities where we didn't have too much cultural control. (the we yearn for our motherland anger). probably should get someone to check how the mechanics of that go, but if we were to survive the conflict it would be a small spike in your opponents' tires.
not sure if our turnplayer would want to keep logging in to end turn though
4:41:57 PM -
yton apol: we will not send units against your ice cities if you mean that
4:42:13 PM -
Xenu: i'm sure someone else is already working on it
4:42:30 PM -
Xenu: we may regret the final map trade that gave away its location, whenever that was.
4:43:01 PM -
yton apol: i don't know where are they but couldn't be hard to find them
4:43:27 PM -
Xenu: nope. send out loaded galleys, kill whatever you find when you find it.
4:43:30 PM -
Xenu: pretty easy mission
4:44:32 PM -
Xenu: have you been in contact with WPC lately? i don't know what units are on the board in that area, but maybe if you guys see any of our units you could leave them alone for the time being as long as they aren't a threat to you....if you know what i mean....
4:45:07 PM -
Xenu: hey, remember when inca invaded WPC at the end of their war?
4:45:16 PM -
Xenu: (shhhh!)
4:45:25 PM -
yton apol: yeah inca was pissed on them
4:45:30 PM -
Xenu: you could say that
4:45:41 PM -
Xenu: well...so are we, for violating our NAP
4:45:51 PM -
yton apol: as for your "offer" i will consider it :D
4:46:01 PM -
Xenu: heh. i have no idea what you're talking about
4:47:23 PM -
Xenu: i'll post this chat in our forum and make sure our turnplayer is aware. something to the effect that we would hate to see the war between 'poly and RB spill over into the peaceful WPC countryside, so we won't fight each other there.
4:47:24 PM -
yton apol: wpc told me btw that you agreed with them that you will let them take 6 incan cities in the north
4:47:56 PM -
Xenu: we did agree to that. and then they didn't take any cities while the dogpile was developing. we also had a deal with them that we wouldn't make a separate peace.
4:48:11 PM -
Xenu: so we were stuck - as long as we were at war with inca we couldn't reposition our army to prepare for invasion in the west
4:48:22 PM -
Xenu: and we couldn't make peace with inca until they were dead
4:48:28 PM -
Xenu: so WPC screwed us by not taking their cities
4:48:54 PM -
Xenu: it took us every bit of the time from when we finally killed inca (in WPC territory!!!) to heal and get our troops west to have a chance to face you guys
4:48:57 PM -
Xenu: we still weren't really ready
4:49:03 PM -
Xenu: we didn't have time to wait on WPC
4:49:11 PM -
yton apol: that's one way to tell it.. inca used whatever they had left against wpc in spite
4:49:38 PM -
Xenu: some of us felt bad about them not getting their cities but we weren't going to sacrifice our empire to make sure they got their land. that would be crazy
4:50:29 PM -
Xenu: well inca knew we were going to kill them, they couldn't stop it (does that sound familiar?). so they went out guns blazing and took the fight to WPC. capturing that city was so hilarious...WPC totally had it coming for ruining inca's game with that stupid early war
4:51:08 PM -
Xenu: for all the problems inca had pressing the red button at the start of the game, they played really well despite being attacked by WPC
4:51:26 PM -
Xenu: but there's no way they could win with a neighbor like that
4:53:43 PM -
yton apol: about the war btw: i truly expected that we take some cities then we would be stopped, we turn the situation a stale mate, with some raidings along the coast, spy actions etc.. we were ok with that as our economy was very strong at that point. we hoped that cfc and aztec could destroy a few key cities and then we stay in a long war. so it was a surprise to us that we managed to break through your armies.. aztec cuirsaier or what army was also a surprise.. we thougfht they will be the weakest
4:55:42 PM -
Xenu: i don't know the details of the tactical breakdown, i know something went wrong early in the war, we had a stack on a bad tile or something and took earlier losses than we thought we would. i think we simply didn't foresee the cuir stack since they got them upgraded so quickly. that was a nice move by you guys. feeding them cash (think it was you guys?) so they could upgrade was a major problem. i think we were defending with muskets and the cuirs ate them alive
4:56:17 PM -
Xenu: i could be wrong on some of the tactical stuff though, but i'm sure CivPlayers probably reported it.
4:56:24 PM -
yton apol: yes we gave them gold for upgrades
4:56:29 PM -
Xenu: we know
4:56:49 PM -
Xenu: we knew a whole lot about everybody for most of the game. our guy doing C&D work was amazign.
4:57:06 PM -
Xenu: i'm obviously the worst diplomat ever telling you guys all this but it clearly doesn't matter now
4:57:22 PM -
Xenu: there weren't a lot of secrets from us most of the game. but the cuir upgrade plan was a huge surprise
4:57:31 PM -
yton apol: yeah.. maybe i too tell things i shouldn't yet, but it could hardly matter
4:57:51 PM -
Xenu: ha, what are we going to do? there's not an arrangement of deck chairs left that's going to stop our sinking ship
4:58:10 PM -
Xenu: tell all the stories you want, this chat is going straight into our forum for entertainment purposes
4:58:28 PM -
Xenu: it isn't like we have any good news to report
4:58:50 PM -
yton apol: it's ok
4:59:41 PM -
Xenu: got any fun stories you guys haven't been able to tell us yet?
5:00:06 PM -
Xenu: even if it's regarding stuff you don't want your coalition partners to know, i won't tell them about it. just post it in our private forum.
5:00:14 PM -
Xenu: they can read about your misdeeds after the game ends.
5:00:42 PM -
yton apol: as i said i expected you and maya getting to some kind of agreement.. maya really screwed up by making peace with cfc.. maybe they now want some kind of alliance with aztec.. I don1t know, but we have long naps comiong
5:01:10 PM -
Xenu: gah...maya....i don't know why they signed up for a diplomacy game if they weren't going to do diplomacy.
5:01:15 PM -
Xenu: we could never get them to engage very well.
5:02:33 PM -
Xenu: yeah...and making peace with CFC (and signing a NAP???!) was a horrible move. even if they don't attack CFC being at war with them would tie down troops on that border and reduce CFC's success on the other front.
5:02:39 PM -
Xenu: strategic blunder for sure
5:03:17 PM -
yton apol: hre1s involvement was a surprise to us.. but at least they did something logical.. unfortunately for them it was not enough to stop us and now they got the rest of the world.. well not liking them
5:03:35 PM -
yton apol: yeah, i agree
5:03:49 PM -
Xenu: HRE is UCiv right?
5:04:14 PM -
Xenu: we kind of made them an offer they couldn't refuse
5:04:18 PM -
yton apol: cfc wanted to bring the whole world against you.. i rather wanted a 3 vs 1 or even 3 vs 2 for a harder but more fun war
5:04:18 PM -
Xenu: well they could have...
5:04:59 PM -
Xenu: i probably shouldn't talk about our "alleged" deal with UCiv, since they're still in this game.
5:05:16 PM -
Xenu: CFC wanted us dead from before the game started.
5:05:44 PM -
yton apol: but what i whish for and what i should do as a responsible member of my team... while i thought maya making nap with us is a bad move we should had tried to make them making nap with us
5:06:35 PM -
Xenu: i'm sure your emails were ignored if it was anything like it was with us
5:06:48 PM -
Xenu: scooter would send email after email waiting for response and nothing would ever come back
5:07:09 PM -
Xenu: maybe next time we play with them we'll use an AI diplo setup
5:07:20 PM -
Xenu: save everyone time on wasted emails
5:08:34 PM -
yton apol: we had our diplomatic dispute with them.. we got very close to war in the beginning.. really it was just matter of hours in rl when they finally accepted our border proposal.. i1m not 100% sure we would had started the war by killing their settler, but very likely
5:08:47 PM -
Xenu: ha
5:08:52 PM -
Xenu: they should have escorted it
5:09:06 PM -
Xenu: wolves and panthers are dangerous you know
5:09:40 PM -
yton apol: there was some escort, but we had enough chariots.. btw our armies were very laughable at that point.. we would had started the war with a 3 unit army
5:09:49 PM -
Xenu: haha
5:09:59 PM -
yton apol: it was not that early
5:10:01 PM -
Xenu: well you probably would have done better with it than WPC did
5:10:06 PM -
Xenu: with a much bigger army
5:10:31 PM -
Xenu: i should stop trashing them, it isn't nice. but i'm not a great player myself and even i know better than a lot of the stuff they did.
5:12:29 PM -
yton apol: ok, i need to go now, nice talking with you
5:13:37 PM -
Xenu: you too. enjoy the turn this weekend and don't forget to mention to your turn player (or are you the turnplayer) that we, uh, have no desire for unnecessary bloodshed in WPC territory.
5:14:46 PM -
yton apol: I1m the turn player from the beginning, also the diplomat and the intelligence advisor.. and everything else..
5:15:03 PM -
Xenu: ha. so much for getting help!
5:16:10 PM -
yton apol: but as i said I1m not sure yet we should do this.
5:16:37 PM -
Xenu: oh...we don't plan to extend our stay in WPC territory.
5:16:46 PM -
Xenu: i mean, it's a one way trip for whoever is going that direction
5:16:55 PM -
Xenu: but we don't plan to stay....
5:17:09 PM -
yton apol: i know what you mean
5:17:44 PM -
yton apol: and i guess it would be your way to thank wpc that they break the nap
5:17:50 PM -
Xenu: that's the exact reason
5:17:59 PM -
Xenu: they've earned some payback
5:18:12 PM -
Xenu: i mean at this point it's a tickle fight but who cares,
5:18:46 PM -
yton apol: if it wouldn't so apparent that you go with our consent i wouldn't mind it. not that we fear of wpc or anything
5:19:43 PM -
Xenu: oh, i guess if you have a stack nearby it would be unseemly to just let us walk by.
5:20:01 PM -
Xenu: oh well, just don't take screenshots of that part of the map, maybe no one will notice
5:20:09 PM -
Xenu: well...WPC may notice.
5:20:20 PM -
Xenu: or CFC who seems to be passing troops from that direction.
5:20:30 PM -
yton apol: do you have a knight or something?
5:20:47 PM -
Xenu: i don't know exactly what we have, seems like it was a few rifles.
5:20:55 PM -
yton apol: i think its border will pop next turn
5:20:55 PM -
Xenu: i should be shot for treason for giving up troop positions.
5:20:56 PM -
Xenu: haha
5:21:25 PM -
Xenu: but then they'd have to hire a new diplomat and i'm not sure anyone else wants to do it
5:21:59 PM -
Xenu: which border? a city you guys captured or one of WPCs? i don't even know where we're talking about, just have a hazy idea that the turn player was going to try something up there
5:22:33 PM -
yton apol: the city what wpc got. also our borders might slow you as well
5:22:54 PM -
Xenu: oh, i guess seen the area since they got the city
5:23:11 PM -
Xenu: well hold off on those artist specialists until we're by :P
5:25:12 PM -
yton apol: ok, i'm really going now. i suggest you don1t move units close to us. btw most of our units will stand down soon. after our heated arguments with aztec we are not keen to let our troops die for them
5:25:53 PM -
yton apol: i mean in the east, where wpc is. our troops are still fighting in the west and we reqquire no special care
5:26:36 PM -
Xenu: ok, i'll let our turn player know to stay away if at all possible and we'll try to do you no harm with whatever units he has going out to the northeast
5:26:40 PM -
Xenu: have a good weekend.
5:26:49 PM -
yton apol: you too
)
