RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Peter of Byzantium

[sunrise089]

I'm behind...

*I think the Imageshack image looks a bit better, and yes I tested blind I always use imageshack's auto-resize and think it does OK. There are also free downloadable image editing programs that can auto-resize a group of images at once that do a much better job.

*@Krill - I also play in windowed mode, but I still like widescreen. My desktop is set to 1600x1000 and I run civ at 1440x900 IIRC. I miss fullscreen civ at 1920x1200, but screencapped images were tedious at that size.

*I think we can circle the worker, but we should be conservative. After ten turns or so I'd like to be able to beat an enemy warrior back to the cap. Once we're in slavery we can again go scouting if we want.

*If we go for Oracle I like Agriculture -> Fishing -> Mining -> BW -> Meditation -> Priesthood. I think it only makes sense to insert hunting+AH in if we can't see copper in a spot we want to settle. Otherwise I don't see us landing Oracle.

[regoarrarr]

Yes. I am currently thinking one of these:

Agriculture -> Fishing -> Hunting -> AH -> Mining -> BW -> Pottery
Agriculture -> Fishing -> Hunting -> Mining -> AH -> BW -> Pottery
Agriculture -> Fishing -> Mining -> Hunting -> BW -> AH -> Pottery

After that I'd like to start on Writing -> Mathematics -> Currency. The question I guess is do we want to go Meditation -> Priesthood first and make an Oracle run...

Darrell

Those look good to me. I think it also might be worth considering

Agriculture -> Fishing -> Hunting -> Mining -> BW -> AH -> Pottery
or
Agriculture -> Fishing -> Mining -> BW -> Hunting ->AH -> Pottery
to give us earlier access to slavery and chops.

Also if we have copper and no visible cows / sheep / pigs then I think Pottery is better before AH, though AH would show us where horses are.

And if we don't have copper we may have to slip in Archery somewhere in there.

So I seem to recall T-hawk saying that 1/3/0 grass hill is better than whipping but 0/4/0 plains hill is not. What about 1/1/4 fur? Is that considered a "good" tile that you shouldn't whip away?

[darrelljs]

Those tech permutations all look good to me. I'll find some time to run them and see what kind of optimizations I can make for each. You guys feel free to do the same and double check my work .

So I seem to recall T-hawk saying that 1/3/0 grass hill is better than whipping but 0/4/0 plains hill is not. What about 1/1/4 fur? Is that considered a "good" tile that you shouldn't whip away?

T-Hawk was probably just simplifying things a bit. If we discount turn advantage (which we shouldn't), health/happiness (which we often can), and assume there is a Granary in the city (which should be the first thing slaved), then a whip converts 10+pop food into 30 Hammers. So a Grassland Mine converts 1 food to 3 Hammers and a plains Mine converts 2 food to 4 Hammers. A desert mine converts 2 food into 3 Hammers. Here's a little Excel table I whipped up:



So at 1/3, a Grassland Mine is immediately better than a whip. At a city size of 6 it becomes inefficient to whip a Plains Mine (or for that matter a Plains Forest). At size 10 it is inefficient to whip a Desert Mine or Plains Forest Hill. At size 21 its actually inefficient to whip a Plains Hill! Again though turn advantage is worth more than hammer efficiency. Whipping things gives instant Hammers, which is maybe why your Settler whip is the better idea .

The other part of the equation is Grassland Farm vs. Mine. Basically, until size 10 Grassland Farms produce more Hammers than Grassland Mines.

Darrell

P.S. You have to decide how you want to weight Food/Hammers vs. Commerce to determine how good a tile the Fur is. If you use the Specialist and settled Great Person values to set up a system of linear equations, you get 3 food = 4 hammer = 6 beakers = 6 gold = 12 culture (approximately). Blake used 2 Food = 4 Hammer = 5 Commerce, but I thought that overweighted Commerce quite a bit. I think 2 Commerce is at least equal to 1 Hammer, even at this stage of the game, so Fur is as good as a Grassland Mine.

[regoarrarr]

Okay - Sullla founded and he has 8 land tiles in his initial 9 for the capital - most of anyone. Just LiPing left to settle

Here is my exploration path draft


Depending on what we find in the east - I may go E instead of SE on Turn 3, which would put us on the plains hill SW of the wheat on T10.

Thoughts or other exploring suggestions?

[Kyan]

turn 6- why west rather than south west? im probably missing something obvious

[regoarrarr]

Good point - I was trying to get on the hill, but you're right that SW is probably better

[sunrise089]

I may not have the turn count right. I think we should move onto the visible plains hill, and then walk SW off it, the W, then NW onto the other plains hill.

[darrelljs]

Just to play devil's advocate, the pictured route will put us enough squares from the capital that if someone comes in from the west we're potential toast (at least until borders pop).

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

So sunrise, rather than go NE on T2 (next turn), you are suggesting SE onto the wines and then SW onto the visible plains hill?

I was trying to go off being back near the capital by T10 which someone (you?) had mentioned earlier in the thread

[sunrise089]

Re: Enemy warrior sneaking up - Won't our borders pop in just a few turns? Once that happens we'll have extra visibility from the hill tiles.

@Regoarrarr -