[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[LiPing]

I am so glad, that I decided to be safe after the last bad move, and did not move onto certain forested hill... or this would have been a very short game. Well it could still be a very short game. They would have seen my unpopped border, the only possible existing warrior, and I could do absolutely nothing about dying.



So, yeah, hello Korea. Next up, "I am bad at Diplomacy".

[LiPing]

To: Broker + Plako
Hello Korea, just noticed your Warrior on the hill, I do not have Broker's contact info (plako's is <ommitted>?) so I thought I'd send you a message to ask, and also find out if you are free to chat currently.

So... waiting on response. I have not moved yet. I think the sensible move is to go onto the same hill as them, and if they go NE... well, hope Aggressive works, attempt to kill it at 68% and hope for the best.
I think if they try and DoW from there directly, their warrior will get evicted from the tile and it will count as the move for that turn, that is, it won't somehow end up closer by one tile and still able to move?

Well, what I want right now, is them away from where my border. I don't think they can choke me from that position should they try-
Them - N, NE, E, DoW:SE
Me - NE, E, Hold, SE
I guess that's kind of annoying to have it on the gold, but I'll get that forest covered and maybe I can kill it with two warriors once the next comes out but... that's basically a guaranteed lost game for me, I think. I'm tempted to just not build warrior, ignore that they're there, and if I die to getting rushed by warriors, oh well, I get to go join the lurkers, it's less stressful anyway

[LiPing]

Uh, so... Let's play, LiPing's bad at diplomacy.
I assume I just put the wall of text here, I took off some lines of me fumbling around with google chat that weren't useful.

LiPing: oh and my apologies in advance before we start, because I'm fully aware I'm a terrible diplomat

broker0033: Well unlike the other game I cannot make unilateral decisions regardign diplomacy so I have to consult with my partner on all matters
Definatly alot less room between capitals. May I ask how far west of you initial starting point you moved?

LiPing: yes, of course; I notice you are both around currently, does this have a multi-chat function to make it easier or do you already have some idea in mind?

broker0033: well he only uses msn which I have also logged into. I like this as it keep logs. He isnt logged in at the moment time zone difference is a pain sometimes
also alot of people use this
did my question on your move west get through?

LiPing: yes, but I would like to ask in return, you clearly have the better knowledge of the terrain between us, would you be willing to exchange information on the distance between in exchange?
... boy that looks clumsy

broker0033: you are uncomfortably close

LiPing: lol, I could say the same

broker0033: we are not agressive rome

LiPing: well at the moment, we are both "people with clubs"

broker0033: true
Yes if you let me know how far west you moved I will tell you the distance to capitals

LiPing: 4sq

broker0033: damn they started us close. Hang on let me count
we are 8 tiles west on the coast started 12 tiles apart can guess it is probably uniform both sides

LiPing: dang, lol

broker0033: like I said uncomfortable not like the first pitboss which took almost 30 turn to meet someone

LiPing: yeah, I admit, I wasn't expecting to see anyone early on who didn't use a scout
I saw standard size map on the info screen so I figured I would just circle the capital and wait for second warrior

broker0033: my connection is acting up

LiPing: Pretty glad I did now as it is, or I'd probably be looking at getting killed instantly

broker0033: I was quite surprised to see borders when I hit the hill

LiPing: I was quite surprised to see the warrior, I'd just gone back to check demographics because I'd gotten something wrong

broker0033: thought we had a scout?

LiPing: no, I miscalculated something about someone's build

broker0033: Ah I dont know how to do that
fly by the seat of my pants

LiPing: heh, I just thought I'd take the opportunity to try, don't really get to do it in any other game
and it helps with my secondary objective

broker0033: after reading the demo game I am sure people can tell when I pick my nose
May I ask what your secondary objective is?

LiPing: Sure, well, playing in teams is obviously somewhat more fun, but I didn't really want to be just like "Hi, here I am, please team up with me", because then I'm just someone random who came out of nowhere and has no credibility
similarily I didn't want to say anything about the demogame when it was in progress because it's like... the show of the people who were there all along, and who would I be to just jump in and start talking (at least that's what I think)
so I am hoping to at least show I am somewhat competent or useful enough that people might consider taking me on if we have future games, lol

broker0033: I did the random thing. It worked out for me he thinks alot different and we have very good discussions and come up to a plan. Took forever to decide to settle in place when I generally just do it.

LiPing: of course, I could just be making an idiot out of myself and they could all be laughing at how many things I get wrong, for all I know
Ah, but you were already established

broker0033: Nope first pitboss was my first game. And I know I made my share of weedy moves
before that I lurked
I think I had 4 or 5 posts before the game

LiPing: I vote that the first pitboss establishes you

broker0033: Ok cant argue that
I was just thinking that if there is another civ similar distance they other way scouting needs to be cut short

LiPing: fair enough
to be honest, I was hoping someone's scout would run into me from your direction, if anyone did
I suppose the more immediate question is, now that we are here, assuming the idea isn't to start generating large amounts of guys with clubs, what now?

broker0033: Yes that is the question. Need to discuss with my partner but what were your ideas?

LiPing: since, I don't expect you to tell me, if the idea to generate lots of guys with clubs
well... I will go over my most immediate idea, and I know it's going to sound a little hostile, so please bear with me, lol
my initial thought is to move on the same hill as you, and hope you decide to move towards my capital so that the only choice I have is to attack and so I don't have to think about it

broker0033: LOL stake your game on a 50/50 battle eh

LiPing: lol
well, I admit, with this little invested, it's not too bad an option to end up among the lurkers
and I'm finding the pressure to play fast from people in the email thread very stressful lol

broker0033: early turns people want to fly through. We now have things to think about so a more sedate pace is desired

LiPing: actually, I feel like the first 15 turns are the slowest
so much numbercrunching

broker0033: I dont number crunch so I just move my scout hit end turn
decide what I am going to do at turn one then go

LiPing: and failing you deciding to charge me with warriors...
I suppose my next plan would be to try and negotiate some satisfactory way for you to move your guy away from where my border will be so that I can scout somewhere and not leave two warriors sitting there
should you be deciding to try to choke me or something with the guy with the club, that is

broker0033: yes those would be the discussions. I have messages out to my partner and need to discuss with him this was unexpected so I have no idea what he will want to do.
Simply havent discussed it yet
We have time though

LiPing: heh, at least it's not yesterday
I don't really get free time on Fri/Sat, not usually at home until Sun evening

broker0033: It is sunday 11:50 here. Plako wont be available to discuss for another 4-5 hrs

LiPing: 3:20 am for me, stayed up a bit

broker0033: get some sleep. Should have some info for you in the AM

LiPing: 8 tiles is a bit ugly though

broker0033: yep

LiPing: if anyone of us settles inbetween, only one city can fit

broker0033: yep

LiPing: and it'll be kind of culturally squashed too
actually, no, disregard that

broker0033: Real close even if you settled in place on 1 city each would have fit between us

LiPing: I couldn't really settle in place

broker0033: realy starting spot should have been similar to ours fair map and all

LiPing: I had hmm
10 water tiles, two hills

broker0033: maio capital must have had 2 seafood sources at least good for whipping

LiPing: a non adjacent rice
a crab and a fur

broker0033: that is alot of water

LiPing: how is yours, lol

broker0033: similar little less water

LiPing: so yeah, I moved towards the rice
and I saw 3 resources, so I went there

broker0033: cool we thought about moving but settling was the better choice for us

LiPing: well, as it turns out, not so cool, lol

broker0033: Well I hate to cut this short but football (american version) is about to start
We will send you a message once I have discussed with Plako

LiPing: fair enough, tata

Yeah. Exaggerated the badness of the start a little (it's still technically correct, and don't take me too seriously, map guys...), maybe they will be willing to 'accept' my presence where it is. Couldn't casually get any useful information. Broker seems be overlooking that my side warrior has combat I, but I'm sure he'll/they'll notice later. And I do see plako around, so he just wants time to discuss, I think

Anyway, I hate diplomacy

[Krill]

You get used to it after a while...

Question: are you continuing with the worker build, or changed to a warrior?

[LiPing]

I haven't actually played the turn yet.

I know I should, but I am thinking of just leaving it as is for now until it seems apparent that I absolutely have to, the warrior starts I looked at seemed pretty poor and knowing that, I am rather reluctant to let go, I feel I wouldn't be tempted to put much effort into that, or calculating it out, but yeah, right now at 4:00am, I don't really want to think much at all.

I know that they weren't the builder of the first warrior (my soldier score didn't drop in rank, as it should have if they were) and this is turn 6. At 8 tiles, assuming that the number he gave is accurate, (I'll think about that later) I can still build one before another one gets here if I see something on demographics to suggest that it's possible one was built by Korea.

I did also try testing to see what happens if I lose the warrior vs warrior, even after the border pops, the city seems to get razed, so it would still be kinda amusing to me if they take the warrior vs warrior and win...

[LiPing]

Lovely.

Mortius to me
Hi LiPing,

I see that the mapmakers decided that the Zulus, and Rome will be neighbors again. To be honest it wasn’t a big surprise for me. Seeing we are the only aggressive civs I expected it somehow

The most important question now is how we will determine our relationship?

The first RB PitBoss has showed that war between two aggressive civs is not the best solution. It would cripple both our civs and make us an easy prey for our other neighbors. It is not a secret I personally am not interested in such a war.

On the other hand, the establishment of peaceful relations, would protect us from one flank, and allow us to “focus” on our other neighbors. I'm definitely more interested in this option



And what do you think?





PS: English is not my mother tongue, and if any part of this or next massages is rude, it is not the result of my intentional action but deficiencies in the use of English. Therefore, please take this into account

[LiPing]

Am I really supposed to be posting these in their entirety? I mean... this seems like a real candidate for "too long, don't read". Slightly edited for formatting though, and I had to take out smileys to make it come in under the 50 image limit.

broker0033: You around?

LiPing: now, yes, yourself?

broker0033: yep
sorry was watching tv, I talked with plako earlier today. So I have my parameters for a discussion on the closeness of our capitals

LiPing: okay, I had some possible proposals, but you first

broker0033: Well initial thoughts are that we should be able to settle in the area between us since you moved your capital west and have more room to your east - It is arguably our settling area

LiPing: Admittedly, I thought about that, which was going to come to my second proposal

broker0033: We would also like to avoid an early destructive war to both our civs

LiPing: I agree with that one, I have no interest in sitting making a huge string of guys with clubs, if we both do that then we just end up with mutually assured destruction

broker0033: true and if we were to survive an immediate rush we would have two capitals and a huge target on us and it is not worth hinging the game on a bad dice roll

LiPing: actually, I would rather have the dice roll right now if we were going to do that, and there is the possibility of just razing it
I mean, I know that I have the aggressive warrior and so it's 68.1% to me, but I don't think you get bad pot odds on it

broker0033: Yes I did the calculation and actually my warrior survived in the wb test I ran

LiPing: if you win that one, I am guaranteed dead, if I win, the same can't be said for you

broker0033: True if you win you will still need to defeat a warrior in our capital

LiPing: and I don't think I can reach in time from that position, I'll probably need to sit and heal it and as you say, it is 8 squares away

broker0033: Again we have worked through the scenarios and believe it is in both our best interest to move away from an early conflict

LiPing: plus it would be quite hilarious I think, when people read about me trying to convince you to attack me

broker0033: I am sure there are discussion saying we have as you say good pot odds and should go for it but it is not our preferred path

LiPing: okay, so let me go to the next option I have in mind
first I would like to offer some information, because as I said, I really don't want to sit here going warrior warrior warrior etc

broker0033: Yes I would like to hear your proposals and info I have given our basic framework

LiPing: firstly I know someone made a warrior on turn 5, and I know it wasn't you

broker0033: How do you calculate that with so many players and no demographics? Just curiosity

LiPing: you can do it directly from the demographics window, you can calculate how many hammers people are producing, etc, so I would like to put forwards that I feel I have a fairly good alarm system if you try and sneak-warrior me

broker0033: Interesting. As I said don't know how to do that. Not disputing you but it does seem to need a lot of guesswork

LiPing: secondly I have a plains-forest-deer, so I can start one as soon as you finish yours, and it will be ready in time

broker0033: I personally am not the sneak attack type if we come to an agreement I will honor it

LiPing: since it's a 2/2/0 tile, it'll be less damaging to my growth, and I do have the aggressive guys, so I feel that if we do end up openly deciding to war now, I might have a slightly better time of it, but I don't want to explore this option at all, merely trying to dissuade us from that path.

broker0033: unless of course the current warrior survives

LiPing: yes, if we do that path, however I am more in favour of that one
but now, for more peaceful suggestions?

broker0033: Yes lets hear the peaceful solutions

LiPing: okay, well, first, have you met anyone else from your opposite side?

broker0033: Not yet you are the first we have met.

LiPing: okay, more free info, I met someone else's unit from the other direction

broker0033: as I feared we are all close
may I ask who

LiPing: at this moment, I'll just say it's someone I really didn't want to be next to, but I am willing to come back to that later depending on what we decide here

broker0033: I was getting juice
You kept up with the other pitboss game?

LiPing: yeah, but I lost interest in it after the original players started to leave, I felt it just lacked the right dynamic after they were gone

broker0033: then you would agree I follow through with my commitments and agreements?

LiPing: certainly, I would expect everyone to, really

broker0033: Yes it is nice to expect people but much less stressful to know
and easier to negotiate

LiPing: after all, if anyone decides to go around haphazardly violating whatever arguments they make, no one will ever trust them again later

broker0033: true but there is always delaying tactics. such as saying you will do something then delaying till its not needed. I could have done that with the HA's I sent to help the lins in their war but I whipped civ to meet the commitment

LiPing: and that is where I hate diplomacy
I like things to be very black and white

broker0033: I would like to hear your ideas. I am very much a letter and spirit of the law person. Take both into account

LiPing: First, In regards to agreeing away a section of land I can't see, I find it hard to do, I would like to see what there is there first (food etc)

broker0033: we have seen some silks and a cow so far

LiPing: and get a better idea if it could be split with two cities on different vertical height, for example

broker0033: good faith move on my part

LiPing: now obviously, I can't really just walk over there if you have a warrior near me, and you would have a pretty dim view of me walking a warrior towards you

broker0033: true

LiPing: and perhaps after all, you might want to continue around my border to meet the person on the other side
so I propose the possibility, that we immediately declare war, and then a 10 turn peace and explore enough of that to make an informed decision
I do understand that you're not thrilled that I've moved here
but I would like to say, if that particular spot of land was good for settling, I'd be there, and not here, after all

broker0033: While that makes sense I don't see it as necessary. As I originally stated that area is arguably our natural settling area. If we have an agreement we can include resource trades.

LiPing: well, it doesn't omit resource trades, it's just a way of enforcing a 10 turn peace so that we can be guaranteed that we won't 'ninja' each other's capitals

broker0033: Also I feel that since we are so close and most likely have others as close we should focus our settling efforts to grab as much land away from each other as possible.

LiPing: I am on board with that, but we will need to do something with it eventually, no?

broker0033: yes that is true. Our initial position is that it should be ours. That position could change depending on the land and circumstances of our relationship

LiPing: actually, how big an area are we talking?
like... how far south does the coast slope, and what's our position to each other vertically?

broker0033: land between us vertical strip 8 tiles wide

LiPing: vertical, or horizontal?
(and this is why, I want to see the area, lol)

broker0033: I am unsure of the land north of our position I am assuming it does not go far

LiPing: hmm okay, two questions then
I notice that the coast tends to run southwards gradually, is that the case still over at your end, or does it curve northwards or something else?

broker0033: It runs straight west to east by us

LiPing: okay
am I then, located further north than you are?

broker0033: yes not far but north

LiPing: and by the area between us, do you mean in a straight line?

broker0033: I am talking two dimensional east west encompassing land north and south for now

LiPing: hmm let me think
okay, supposing say, we are 8 squares distant left to right, and 4 top to bottom
would that mean that for example, you want to plant a city 4 squares east and 2 squares north of your capital?

broker0033: coast curves north by you?

LiPing: yes

broker0033: I don't want to bog down on the land discussion without more info on how far north the land reaches. I have some suspicions but need to confirm them
Besides the war/peace option what other thoughts did you have?

LiPing: the coinflip

broker0033: not that. enforced 10 turn peace

LiPing: oh, well, that was as far as I got really, I figured it was better to work out if you were on board with it or had decided to take the cointoss
because that would save a lot of time

broker0033: Ok here is my thoughts
We are not interested in a short term peace only to be swarmed by aggressive praets
would rather take the coin flip now then the slow death later
We would propose a long term NAP also that you would not settle west of your position and we will not settle east of ours although we feel the land should be ours it is in both our best interest to focus in the other direction

LiPing: can you give me an idea of what you mean by long term?

broker0033: Once other boarders are known and land is scouted we can discuss city placement between us but I have a feeling you have squeezed us in pretty good already

LiPing: because similarly, I don't want to be signing a peace just to get run over by hwacha and elephants when construction comes in

broker0033: I doubt there will be ivory on this map
100 turns for initial signing allow us both to focus on others. Also is a good basis for a close working arrangement

LiPing: but yeah, can you define long term please?
is this to come before or after the 10t scout, if we are doing that?

broker0033: I don't see the need for the enforced scout. If it makes you feel more comfortable we can do it but I trust if we have a nap there will be no ninja attacks
who knows you may be able to visit your other neighbor with aggressive praets and hwatcha

LiPing: the thing is, I feel I can't really commit to the nap of that length when we both can't see any resources, and I can't see the area

broker0033: As I said in the land directly between us are some silk and a cow
As for the north our original scouting plan is to swing north and then west

LiPing: I can see the silk, but I mean, neither of us can see horses or copper or iron

broker0033: true but without a nap coinflip seems to become a better choice

LiPing: I am actually quite on board with the coinflip, if you would like it
if I die, better to go out early, with no hard feelings

broker0033: As I said neither of us will settle the land between us until a settling agreement can be put in place but we do believe the land is ours
You do have more land to your east and another neighbor who will want to grab it
I am trying to build a framework for a long term working relationship. Not base the game on a coin flip.

LiPing: may I ask, if I do not take the nap, right here, right now, will you take the coinflip?

broker0033: I would have to discuss that with Plako as I said neither of us are interested in a warrior build up or facing aggressive praets
our odds are better with the coin flip quite honestly

LiPing: or are we able to talk about the possibility of nap 10t later

broker0033: Why delay? All that does is allow you to build up and our window is closed.

LiPing: okay, then I would like to try and sell you on the idea of the coinflip

broker0033: Can you afford to fight us with another neighbor that as you said you were unhappy to have next to you

LiPing: well, this way I might be comfortably dead in 3 turns and I no longer have to think about it
you guys get to divide up the land and get in a strong position
I get to watch from the sidelines
you no longer have to worry about aggressive praets
everyone else gets their faster turns

broker0033: that is if you lose. If you win we are on the sidelines

LiPing: ah, but that's not guaranteed

broker0033: what would be guaranteed is we both have to build up warriors and our other neighbors take our land
You are not interested in a NAP?

LiPing: I am not interested in an immediate NAP on turn 6, I think I lack the necessary info to commit to it, and I don't want to break my word

broker0033: You think you will have to attack us?
An early war or settler rush between us will simply put us both out of this game while we focus on a narrow strip of land others grab our land the other direction

LiPing: well, I do not necessarily want the strip of land

broker0033: A long term agreement ensures we focus resources away from each other and have a secure boarder

LiPing: but I don't like to commit to such a long term agreement without knowing firsthand and I am getting the feeling I must either sign it now, or it won't be an option at all

broker0033: We would prefer it now. Delaying it would weaken our position and long term survival

LiPing: times like this I wish I had a teammate who liked diplomacy, lol

broker0033: I am simply proposing we work together and focus our activities away from each other and not settle the land between us till more is known about it and it has been discussed between us, long term nap is to ensure that we both have time where we can grow and not worry about a rush. I am sure you wouldn't want to see axes before you have preats etc/

LiPing: they would just do this and come back and tell me what to do while I sat in my planning room

broker0033: damn connection
Your reluctance to make the agreement or delay its decision and willingness to take a coinflip is disconcerning

LiPing: well, I do think the coinflip would be hilarious

broker0033: I suppose but I would prefer to ensure that both our civs are in a better position to win this game. Which I believe the NAP and future settling agreement does.

LiPing: I think 100T is a very long time, might as well just be talking about alliance instead then, if that's the case

broker0033: If you want the coinflip why not attack the warrior on the hill instead of ensuring you have the better percentage. It will be closer to 50/50 if you attack
Well actually that is what I am working towards and 100 turns in negotiable

LiPing: because, it would make me look crazy not only then would I have bad toss odds, I have bad pot odds too

broker0033: you play poker don't you

LiPing: I play poker, mahjong and various games like that, yeah

broker0033: I prefer not to gamble at this point
dosent mean I wont

LiPing: I love a good gamble

broker0033: you are nuts
LOL

LiPing: and I can imagine all the lurkers laughing their heads off

broker0033: do you have a counter proposal to the length? Other than 10 turns of course

LiPing: hmm
first settlers would normally come out around... t40, let's say... those would therefore go west and east
adding infrastructure and so on...
next one maybe err... t56 or thereabouts
assuming that can go somewhere else, area shouldn't come up until then...
(you can ignore me blabbering )

broker0033: with your blabbering as you call it 100 still seem reasonable
we will come to a settling agreement to the center area before then

LiPing: how about say, 60t
(but I would still prefer the flip)

broker0033: why not just rush your other neighbor?
that would be more fun for the lurkers

LiPing: because this will be fully decisive
and there is the possible option right now

broker0033: so you are not interested in a NAP and possible alliance?

LiPing: well, I propose 60t, but it'd not be my preferred option... counter-proposal?

broker0033: 75?

LiPing: 75 means ending t81 right?

broker0033: what turn is it?

LiPing: t6, LOL

broker0033: yeah t 81
If we are agreed on 75 turn nap with no settling between us without further discussion I will take it to Plako to sign off on. He is in europe so should see it in a few hours.

LiPing: I am thinking

broker0033: ok
not pushing but it is getting late

LiPing: a big part of me really wants to flip, lol

broker0033: I would if I knew I would win it

LiPing: ... if I say no, will it lead to the flip? lol

broker0033: If you promise the NAP if you win the flip I can probably get him to agree to the flip we would be out a scouting warrior, you lose you get to lurk

LiPing: I would be willing to give 10t if I win the flip
I am also willing to give my demographic espionage, if I lose the flip

broker0033: nah prefer the NAP it would take you 10 turns to get there

LiPing: 15t, then

broker0033: Lets just agree to the NAP it is the best long term interest
really hate basing winning or losing on dumb luck

broker0033: you thinking?

LiPing: yeah
I am also wondering what I will have to do with the other guy if I take the NAP

broker0033: do what you want good place for your praets

LiPing: what's the odds of that right, move 4 squares west and get two contact from opposite sides by turn 6, lol

broker0033: may even be able to trade you some hwactha for praets
yeah really close on this game

LiPing: I am just somewhat worried from this position that if I end up with a similar agreement on the other side
then where do I go

broker0033: Well that is the thing don't make two agreements like that. Keep thiers shorter term. I am looking for a long term partnership here.

LiPing: but they may have the same idea as you, lol

broker0033: Ah that is the rub and the reason for the reluctance

LiPing: wonder if I can get you both to flip me, lol

broker0033: Are they close enough to take you out or can you get your warrior back in time?

LiPing: I am fine there

broker0033: then if they want to flip let them

LiPing: the flip is only really good for this turn after that, I don't necessarily get KOed by losing, so it isn't much of a flip, heh

broker0033: if they move on you cap and your warrior loses don't you die?

LiPing: there can be soldier increase by that time

broker0033: ah they are further away

LiPing: there can't for your flip

broker0033: have you told them about us?

LiPing: no
well, I was about to

broker0033: Well obviously I am biased but I think this is a good agreement for both our civs.

LiPing: well, I would (slightly reluctantly) take the 60t if that's your preference...

broker0033: can we move that to 75?

LiPing: sorry, I don't feel comfortable with that kind of length due to the other side at this point, but can you think of something else you might like?

broker0033: such as?
60 is the longest you are willing to go?

LiPing: I dunno, demographic info or something like that

broker0033: that includes the no settling without a discussion between us? Taking into account we have a natural claim to the territory

LiPing: going both ways, right?

broker0033: yes

LiPing: then I have no objection to that, which I can foresee

broker0033: Ok I will take this to Plako. If you wish move your warrior to the hill you may still get your coinflip

LiPing: in that case, I need to first discuss with you how to do the coinflip

broker0033: ?

LiPing: well first, my border will pop next turn, so you will need to move NE
if you try and declare war directly with my warrior there, I think it bounces and counts as your turn and that would be unfortunate

broker0033: good to know and I hope it doesn't come to that

LiPing: and your path into city would be NE, SE, SE
(no tricks)

broker0033: ok let me post my message to him and get to bed. It definately has been an interesting chat.

LiPing: do we need to discuss terms of the coinflip also?

broker0033: Care to enlighten me on the other neighbor now?

LiPing: I mean, obviously besides, 'you win, I die'

broker0033: I thought it was pretty straight forward. we move towards your cap you attack? That is assuming Plako vetoes the agreement

LiPing: well there can be additional offers attached

broker0033: Are you trying to give us incentives to do this?

LiPing: yes

broker0033: Ok I will listen

LiPing: well, or something that makes me look less silly if I lose
such as, I would be willing to give the demo info if you declare after moving, instead of making me declare, or give some turns NAP if you declare after moving, that sort of thing (the first one, if I lose, the second one, if I win)

broker0033: How many turns nap?
60

LiPing: enough to guarantee you a warrior
10, or thereabout

broker0033: ok let me give this to Plako and he will send you a message with our decision. If you want move your warrior to the hill for either eventuality

LiPing: ok, tell him to ask if he has any flip negotiations

broker0033: you do like to gamble.
good night

[LiPing]

Next to write to Mortius...

[LiPing]

To: Mortius

Hello Mortius,

First of all, I need to mention that I may be dead in three turns time and you may not actually need to worry about me at all (There's another team's warrior near the city, and I may have to attack it (on flatland) depending on what they decide, negotiation has been a bit difficult, so I've been trying to request that they try that, because otherwise we probably just end up going warrior warrior... and that's not really the kind of game I want to play, so I'd rather decide it now.)

If I survive, I am also not interested in a corrosive war with you, and would actually like to propose the possibility of alliance, or if the geography does not suit that, an agreement to not attack each other. I think it would have a reasonable chance of working, I moved west from my starting position (you might have seen it already), so assuming you came from the east, I think there is a greater distance between us and we should be able to work out borders peacefully.

If so far, this sounds agreeable to you (and I am not dead shortly ) would you be free later to talk about the possibility more in depth?

LiPing

... that felt easier.

Any questions?

[Jabah]

I don't know if you already moved on to the hill (with korea warrior).
In case you have not, you could always increase you odd for the coin flip by moving back to your city.
You will be there first, have the city defence bonus from warrior, plus the cultural bonus from city. Also Korea will have to declare war 1t before to enter your land (and you can always pretend you are building a warrior than will be there to help).

If you have moved to the hill, then you might have a 1/3 chance of losing the game if they gamble.