RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Gandhi of Korea (Broker33 & plako)

[plako]

I'm not that often checking my gmail account, but now I found Whosit message from it:

Dear Broker and plako,

Good to hear back from you. I am very glad to see that you are willing to accept my basic plan, albeit with some changes. Although I would like to say that it was not I who moved the capital, I know that I have inherited that responsibility from my predecessor. Still, I'm glad that you agree that sharing the border region is the best way to avoid either of us feeling crunched. At least, more crunched than we are now.

Therefore, I would be willing to accept this deal with a few further amendments of my own:

*Rather than a blanket extension on the NAP, I propose adding the following clause: The current NAP (set to expire on Turn 60) will automatically extend by 20 turns (to Turn 80) unless either party declares their intention to cancel the deal no less than 10 Turns prior to expiration (before or on Turn 50). The NAP will continue to renew automatically until one party cancels the deal.

*Regarding the two observers for Open Borders: I propose that both observers must be non-combat units, such as Scouts. I know that I would feel uncomfortable with a pair of Axemen wandering around my territory. I am sure that you would feel the same.

*"Excessive Military:" Although any attempt to rigidly define "excessive" would probably get nowhere, here is an attempt at clarification. "Any number of soldiers, standing directly adjacent to the other party's borders, in numbers large enough to cause concern for said party will be considered Excessive. The offended party may ask the offending party to remove the soldiers from the border, and the latter must do so on their next turn."

*I do not contest your suggestions for city placement and I agree in full.

Please let me know if you find these changes agreeable. I look forward to our future cooperation.

On one final note, I would also like to add that I very much appreciate your willingness to compromise on these issues. Diplomacy is all about give-and-take, and I imagine that there are many who do not understand this, so it gladdens me to find fellow rulers who are willing to come to the negotiating table in good faith. Until our next communication.

Best regards,

Whosit

P.S.: I decided to go ahead and start using gmail for our diplomatic messages to avoid filling up our limited mailboxes on the RB forums.

[plako]

Original NAP was ending on turn 66 so at minimum that has to be fixed. However this doesn't raise my confidence that we would be able to live peacefully together after NAP has passed.

[plako]

Possible message. Comments are welcome.

Dear Whosit,

Your unwillingness to lengthen our NAP is a bit alarming. Turn 60 is uncomfortable to us for obvious reasons. It seems to me, you want to keep the option to use Praetorians against us open.

Our coexistence will be very challenging without long term NAP. 60 turns NAP means that we had to give up some peaceful projects and replace them with military build up. Not ideal, but if nescessary we'll do it.

If you insist that NAP must end on turn 60 I suggest following minor changed version:
The current NAP (set to expire on Turn 60) will automatically extend by 40 turns (to Turn 100) unless either party declares their intention to cancel the deal no less than 10 Turns prior to expiration (before or on Turn 50, 90, 130...). The NAP will continue to renew automatically until one party cancels the deal.

Best regards,
plako

[Broker33]

Original NAP was ending on turn 66 so at minimum that has to be fixed. However this doesn't raise my confidence that we would be able to live peacefully together after NAP has passed.

I agree he is trying to shorten the Nap or just rounding. Either way that should be fixed.

Dodged the meaning of excessive military build up. His definition he could build up 6 praets in his capital then cancel nap with 10 turns and we would not have enough time to respond.

Agreed to city placement. I think we should rush that as our first settler to remove any chance he changes his mind or cancels the NAP and settles anyway.

On one final note, I would also like to add that I very much appreciate your willingness to compromise on these issues. Diplomacy is all about give-and-take, and I imagine that there are many who do not understand this, so it gladdens me to find fellow rulers who are willing to come to the negotiating table in good faith. Until our next communication.

Dont see the point of this other than to butter us up. I think we use this against him.

[Broker33]

Dear Whosit,

Your unwillingness to lengthen our NAP is a bit alarming. Turn 60 is uncomfortable to us for obvious reasons. It seems to me, you want to keep the option to use Praetorians against us open.

Our coexistence will be very challenging without long term NAP. 60 turns NAP means that we had to give up some peaceful projects and replace them with military build up. Not ideal, but if nescessary we'll do it.

If you insist that NAP must end on turn 60 I suggest following minor changed version:
The current NAP (set to expire on Turn 60) will automatically extend by 40 turns (to Turn 100) unless either party declares their intention to cancel the deal no less than 10 Turns prior to expiration (before or on Turn 50, 90, 130...). The NAP will continue to renew automatically until one party cancels the deal.

Best regards,
plako

Ok I will do a rewrite below let me know what you think

Dear Whosit

Thank you for your prompt and detailed response. We believe there is a framework here for a long term relationship but also believe it needs a little more work to guarentee both our long term prosperity.

We believe you reluctance to commit to a long term NAP is mildly concerning. Any military build up by either of our fine nations would negativly impact our ability to expand and compete with empires in the fog that are growing more quickly. We understand that you do not want a blanket NAP length so we suggest the following compromise.

Our original NAP is set to end on turn 66 not turn 60. It was a 60 turn nap agreed to on turn 6. I appologize for not being clear about that before. You have suggested an 20 turn extention with a 10 turn notification. We submit that it be a 40 turn extention with a 20 turn cancelation period. And would ask that you agree to 1 extention at this time.

Also I believe that you missed our original intention when we broached the subject of military build up. We would find that any build up of offensive forces in excess of what is needed to reasonably defend your cities 1-2 units per city plus and escort for the next settler would be a prelude to military action. At this point in our nations growth early hammers are more productive when focused on growth than on military. We hope you agree.

We thank you for your kind words and willingness to negotiate and compromise. We also feel this is how diplomacy should be handled between two great nations.

Couple notes. Basically asking for a 100 turn nap in his framework. Softened the language abit. Dont want him thinking we are uncomfortable.

I fully expect him to reject the automatic extention but hopefully we can get him to split the difference to a 30 turn 15 turn notification.

I also tired to clarify military build up. If he rejects this I believe that would signal his intention to hit us with praets when he gets them.

If you like the message go ahead and send it just include me on the email this time. I have gmail and yahoo open so I will see it

[plako]

Good message. I sent it to Whosit and your gmail account.

[plako]

I decided to continue the risky game. Finished the farm and moved new and old warror to N.

[plako]

I played couple of turns. I kept scouting warrior and the warrior near city in place. Scout because there was a lion close by the hill where we want. Worker moved to hill and started to mine it.

[MWIN]

Did you do any simulations as to what you want to produce by which turn?

[plako]

I did in the beginning checking mainly how to get Oracle out as fast as possible. I'll probably do some more after I see whether we've copper and if we do how close it is.

Since we haven't heard from Whosit since our last message. I asked, if he has received it.