RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Peter of Byzantium

[regoarrarr]

There is some slop in the commerce, in my sim which I think is pretty well calibrated by now we have about 10 gold in the bank on turn 62. The key points to hit while working the slider are Archery on turn 57 and Pottery on turn 62.

Darrell

Yeah I was just going to say that I didn't think we had enough gold to run the slider @ 100% this turn (T52)

I will make those turns work. Composing an email to the Ottomans right now. If you'll be around in 20-30 minutes or so to check it out, I will post it here before sending it off

[regoarrarr]

Okay here is what I came up with. Unless I hear feedback, I will send this out in 20 minutes or so

Hey Athlete, Kodii

Thanks for your reply. Apologies it took a bit of time to respond - trying to wrangle opinions out of everyone on our 3-person team (or at least reach enough of a consensus to send out any diplomacy) can be challenging. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. I think that it was even more challenging in this case because there was a wide range of opinions on this matter (kothons were even mentioned!), so now it's my job to try and merge everyone's thoughts into something coherent that we can send you. I guess it will be up to you to judge how well I did!

I guess the first thing that we were confused about was your saying in your last email that you did not want a missionary from us because it was "mutually beneficial". Now, please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but I thought that was the whole point? I was looking for ways that we could work together, in ways that would help both of us. But the impression some of the folks on the team are getting is that you are not really looking for cooperation, but instead some sort of punitive damages? But that doesn't seem to make sense? I would appreciate if you could explain that a bit more so I could take it back to the team.

Speaking of the missionary specifically, you are correct that it is somewhat mutually beneficial to us as well (though not until we have a shrine, which we don't have yet of course). But we also would be spending 40 hammers on the missionary itself not to mention 60 hammers on a monastery (or researching Monotheism and spending a turn of anarchy to revolt to OR). And if we do produce a missionary, it could just as easily go to Greece or Inca if you are not interested. So we are providing you with a benefit - at least that was our intention in suggesting it.

The other point that you had mentioned in your email was regarding a division of the land between us. We are happy to discuss the best way to divide things up and think that it could be very fruitful, since with such an agreement, it might allow us both to focus cities in other directions. You may have somewhat of the advantage of us, since you have scouted towards our capital while we have not scouted as much towards yours (though we can see your borders and divine the location). As you can see, we are very boxed in - with coast to the north, the Greeks to the east, the Incans to the south and yourselves to the east. That was the major reason for us founding Paris in its current spot. As for future locations, you had mentioned wanting to settle SW of Paris. One member of our team wanted to clarify that you meant southwest (that it wasn't a typo). He was confused as to why you would want to settle lands that were so far from your capital. Obviously "southwest of Paris" can mean a lot of different things, but it looks to be about 12 tiles from your capital (e.g. the same distance between your capital and ours), which seemed far. If you did in fact mean southwest, it seems that we would also have to bring in the Incas and/or Greeeks, right? I would hate for the two of us to decide something regarding those lands only to find that the Incas or Greeks have settled in that direction.

I know that you had mentioned other units besides a missionary, but here were some of our concerns with that. Let's say we give you an axe (just as an example). Then, later on, you decide to declare war on us. What happens to that axe? Is our own axe used to attack us? Does he have to sit out the war? Or be given back to us? Similarly, what if we are attacked by someone else? Can we "borrow" our axe back to help us defend? It seemed like there would be a lot of strings to any type of agreement involving a transfer of any type of military units.

So, our proposal is that, should we be able to come up with an appropriate border division, we will gift you a worker, on a mutually agreed upon turn. While a worker can be used to aid in battle, it is not quite the same threat as an axe or other aggressive unit. Also, we will offer that the worker's first job will be roading between our 2 lands, to allow us (hopefully early!) access to 2 coin foreign trade routes.

We thank you for reading our proposal and hope to hear from you soon.

[darrelljs]

Looks great to me!

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Okay I sent it. I will finish up our turn and end it here in a few hours.

[regoarrarr]

Okay I went in game and ended turn.

Military:

Michel moved 1NW of Paris.
Spiros heading SE of AThens.

I think my plan is to put Michel 2NW of Paris, on the road, so that he can reinforce Paris if needed. Once Athens needs a MP (if we see hostiles or if it grows too big), he will head that way. But 2NW of Paris he can serve as a 3rd warrior in Paris as well.

Domestic:
Worker A (I renamed the workers to A, B and C names to try and keep them straight): Finished gold mine. Are we sure we don't want to road the gold mine here next? Or do we get credit for the gold since it's on the river?

Research:

Okay, it's currently T52 and we have no overflow. We are aiming to have Archery (89 beakeres) on T87 and Pottery (119) on T92.

We currently make 14 base beakers at 100%, and lose 4 gpt. At 0% we get the 1 beaker and 10gpt.

In 2 turns, we will gain the gold (8cpt) and in 4 turns, we will gain the furs (4cpt)

We can't get Archery in 3 turns of 100% science (we make 27bpt after the gold - (22+1)*1.2). And we don't have enough gold to run only 1 turn of 0%. My suggestion is that we swap 1 turn of grassland mine with one turn of furs. That gives us 4 commerce in exchange for 2 hammers. I am assuming this can be done without delaying the Oracle?

So that would mean

T52 (current turn), 0 gold, 0 beakers, run 0%
T53: 10 gold, 1 beaker
T54: 20 gold, 2 beakers - swap to 100%, gold comes online, swap to furs, (26+1)*1.2 = 32 beakers this turn
T55: 16 gold, 34 beakers - swap off furs, (22+1)*1.2 = 27 beakers
T56: 12 gold, 61 beakers - we get the furs back due to growth - 32 beakers again
T57: 8 gold, 93 beakers (4 beaker overflow)

For pottery, one turn of gold will put us up to 30 gold in the bank, enough for 4 turns of science and then some.

4 turns of science at 26 raw commerce is (26+1)*1.4 (extra pre-req) or 37 beakers - we may even be able to squeeze out Pottery on T61 rather than T62, if we want to.

[regoarrarr]

Got an email back from Kalin saying they got our msg and would get back to us. Also reminded me that it's not Kodii (that I called him in my email) oops! :-)

[darrelljs]

Are we sure we don't want to road the gold mine here next? Or do we get credit for the gold since it's on the river?

It is connected by virtue of the river .

My suggestion is that we swap 1 turn of grassland mine with one turn of furs. That gives us 4 commerce in exchange for 2 hammers. I am assuming this can be done without delaying the Oracle?

We are making The Oracle with 5 hammer overflow, so assuming things are synced we could in theory do this for 2 turns. Just do it one though, if we come up commerce short again down the road we can stick to the Gold an extra turn at Paris. Also according to your calculations it won't matter much.

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

T53 played. And in potentially alarming news, the Ottomans (who have already played and ended turn on T53 before us) are roading the tile NE of the deer.

The optimistic way to look at it is that they are trying to gain trade routes with us.

The pessimistic way means an attack is coming.

Note that they grew one population this turn (T53) and whipped for one pop.

[darrelljs]

I think we need a clarification on the purpose of that action, do you want to fire off an e-mail? I think the one pop whip is probably a unit, and we are probably in a spot of trouble . If its Axemen we're toast, so let's assume it is Chariots.

We are 5 turns away from having an Archer in place, but if they have Chariots they could come out of the fog and be next to Paris literally the turn the road completes, meaning an attack as soon as turn 55. I now think we want the Warriors in Athens with as much of the 25% fortification bonus as we can get. It sucks not to be able to scout but losing Paris would suck a tad bit more.

I'm going to assume the double whip on turn 49 was a Settler, it doesn't make sense to do a unit from scratch if you are going to do more units later. Let's assume they rolled that into a Chariot, and just whipped a Chariot in their other city. Its that or they whipped into double anger which certainly could happen if they attack. Anyway, if I was them I wouldn't wait for more units, I'd just come in with those and pillage our roads/Gold, prevent Copper from getting hooked up, etc. They might not be able to take Paris (if I do the math right we can whip a fourth Warrior for Paris on turn 54), but they could certainly cripple us. They could also use our road which is in neutral territory to beeline Athens.

Basically if they attack now we're f'd. Let's hope they don't.

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

I now think we want the Warriors in Athens with as much of the 25% fortification bonus as we can get.

Darrell

I assume you mean Paris here? I agree we should have all the warriors there and Athens empty. If they head towards Athens we at least have time