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[SPOILERS] William discovers a source of horse. FDR of Mongolia

(March 5th, 2014, 17:25)mackoti Wrote: When i seen you got roosvel i wnatd to dedlurk you,as is one my favourite leaders.I think you vastly underestimate INd:
Cheap fats forgerge(MC cheaper)
-modifiers get just 50% now if i understnd corect.

Wow, I didn't know that! Thanks, I need to read the change log more carefully.

"Wonder Resource Doublers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource. "

Quote:-you dont build just great wonders, you build NW as well(national epic, heroic epic,OU,Maoi)
- from experince wonders dont get builded that fast eve game is large and with modifiers getting just 50% people will build less.
So with ind and a forge you have 75% multiplier right there.

About ORg i know is vastly underestimate at rb, and the trait is stronger then almost every single others you just need to play a litle diferent.Many cheap buildings counts , becasue a great civ is builded by small saves verywere were is posible.

I'm with you on Org for sure, I know it's a great trait for economy later on. My concern is having nothing to help out at all in the first 80 turns of the game. Unless I go for Stonehenge or Oracle or Pyramids, but that seems crazy with this many players! (I'd be happy to try Roosevelt in a 10 player PB game for sure...) Do you think the savings later makes up for having a slower start than many others?

About dedlurking, I don't know if I'm really worthy. bow Your history shows you are clearly one of the best Civ players here, perhaps even the best. You'd be frustrated at my newb plays for sure, heh. And maybe I need a few more games just trying to do things my own way, learn the hard way what works and doesn't work. But certainly if you want to give me comments (spoiled or not) I'd be honored.
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Here's a list, in order, of who I'd like to start next to. I'm trying to make sure it's as fraught with misconceptions as possible.

1. MYKI: By RB standards, an extreme green sure to fall off quickly. Starting next to him would be nearly like getting an extra half civ worth of land.

2. spacetyrantxenu: We had a peaceful border all through PB11, despite plenty of opportunity for conflict. I'm pretty sure, starting next to him, that we'd both be able to keep the peace and look the other way, both getting an advantage from this.

3. Boldly Going Nowhere: Similar to Xenu.

4. Nakor: Someone coined the term "Human Goody Hut", and I think Nakor is who they were speaking of. His history seems to be playing passively, and not reading the board very well. The wildcard is that maybe he comes into this game with something to prove.

5. Molach: This guy played agressive Rome from a pretty cramped position in PB11, and never attacked anyone. Enough said about that.

6. Hashoosh: A funny Canadian guy. He doesn't seem aggressive, and isn't an extremely strong player.

7. Dhalphir: He's not one of the stronger players in this game, but he's getting better quickly. If he can learn how to turn Civ into an RTS he will beat everyone. I don't see him being disposed to war.

8. yuris125: His style seems very passive, and I don't know if I've ever seen a very good performance from him.

9. BRickAstley + Mardoc: I don't know anything about Mardoc, but have just seen mediocre results from Brick in the past. I don't see him being aggressive.

10. Cyneheard: I only know him though using his combat spreadsheet. So he's obviously a veteran and a numbers guy and very smart. Other than that I've never followed one of his games.

11. Qgqqqqq: Most known for his participation in PB9 with Cornflakes. It's fair to say he's not an elite player. He doesn't seem like a warmonger but he is a bit of a wildcard.

12. Caledorn: He seems like a nice guy from CFC. And honestly he doesn't seem to have a terrifying skill level or investment in the game.

13. Ruff_Hi: I've seen his name a lot but I haven't really followed a game of his. He's a veteran and a wildcard to me.

14. Whosit: I lump him with Jowy a bit. He's best known for his attack in PB2. I don't think he's an upper level player in terms of mechanics.

15. Azza: His reputation is that he will forward settle on you, every time. Having to decide very early whether to try and punish an early land grab is not what I want to be doing in this game.

16. dtay: He seems to be a very solid newcomer. He can play an early economy very well, judging by PB13. With war and tactics I'm less sure. I'm also not sure how he handles an early border.

17. The Black Sword: Like dtay, a solid newcomer, and perhaps less proven in war and how he handles an early border.

18. Old Harry + Fintourist: These guys are a pretty solid team, will play to win, and don't seem like they're going to pick fights very loosely.

19. darrelljs + Ichabod: I don't know much about Darrel's style but I think in this game, Ichabod would want to respect a border, after PB13. If they're in the mood to fight and push a land grab, I doubt I'd be their prefered direction.

20. Jowy: He's been around forever, obviously. He won't keep up in the mid and late games, but he does know how to be a thorn to attack. Oddly, I feel that he'd leave me alone though.

21. Dazedroyalty: I know very little about him.

22. pindicator: I can't really tell him apart from Scooter, honestly. Separated from each other, they must be strong players still but maybe the PB15 version of Pindicator could show up.

23. scooter: See pindicator.

24. Oxyphenbutazone + BaII: Oxy is a wildcard. His micro and game knowledge are quite strong, but I feel like a border with him would be quite tense immediately.

25. plako: He has the reputation that he'll always be near the top of the game, if not smothered in the cradle. I think he'll play calmly and making decisions to try and win the game. A rational self-interested neighbor can be a good one.

26. Krill + Novice: The good thing about starting next to Krill would be that he will play to win, and he doesn't attack unless the odds of victory are extremely decisive. But the obvious problem is that he is one of the strongest players around.

27. Catwalk: He's kind of out there, and his personality is very much a wildcard.

28. AutomatedTeller: I don't know much about him, other than he had an erratic performance in PB9.

29. wetbandit: This guy will be probing for weaknesses. He won't make a purely irrational attack, but he seems very predisposed to an early military game. The good thing is that I think I'd get a little respect, where a player like Kuro (or even Azza) would not.

30. Barry Lyndon: He came out of the woodwork to play his first game. That can mean a whole lot of things, like he could be a smurf, a former ladder player who his hell to play with, a clueless noob, or anything in between. Unpredictable is not what I want to start next to.

31. Cheater Hater: This guy will opportunistically make moves and grabs he can't sustain. His personality also seems erratic, and prone to rage.

32. Bacchus: Just about the worst kind of neighbor I can imagine (other than PB8 Commodore lol). He doesn't seem to believe positive sum relationships in games are possible. He'll probe with chariots, snipe things for fun, and make crazy and unusual moves, settle aggressively.
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(March 6th, 2014, 01:53)WilliamLP Wrote: 11. Qgqqqqq: Most known for his participation in PB9 with Cornflakes. It's fair to say he's not an elite player. He doesn't seem like a warmonger but he is a bit of a wildcard.

Now most known for passing of Ragnar of France in that crazy 34 player pitboss attempt!
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(March 6th, 2014, 02:32)Ceiliazul Wrote:
(March 6th, 2014, 01:53)WilliamLP Wrote: 11. Qgqqqqq: Most known for his participation in PB9 with Cornflakes. It's fair to say he's not an elite player. He doesn't seem like a warmonger but he is a bit of a wildcard.

Now most known for passing of Ragnar of France in that crazy 34 player pitboss attempt!

What, WHAT?! I haven't been following who rejected what (other than Krill) but Ragnar is certainly under consideration for the best leader in RBMod.
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Interesting list. Care to do the skill ranking now? wink
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(March 6th, 2014, 10:52)NobleHelium Wrote: Interesting list. Care to do the skill ranking now? wink

What kind of pretentious person even attempts such a thing?! That is not a very good way to facilitate friendly relations and make people feel good about themselves. I couldn't do that without being coming across as arrogant and out of line.

1. Krill + Novice: I start with a really controversial pick for number one. Krill's not as mathematical as Seven but beats everyone (possible exception of Mackoti) with experience and game sense. He'll spend 60 minutes on stream hashing through small things that seem kind of obvious. I've never followed Novice much but apparently he's unequaled for micro plans, so with he and Krill working together we'll probably see technical play approaching the limits of Civ mechanics.

2. Plako: This guy always contends for the winning spot.

3. Scooter: He's a question mark without Pindicator. But my guess is that he's the brains behind the operation, and if he brings the obsession to this game that he does to post count he'll do really well. His "social macro" is arguably the best of all.

{4-???-8}. Likely solid veteran tier of players I know little about:

Cyneheard, Ruff_Hi, Pindicator, darreljs, dazedroyalty

I don't know these guys much at all so can't attempt an ordering, but I expect them to bring a pretty solid game. Actual skill level could be sprinkled around the rest of this list.

9. Harry-Tourist: These guys seem to work well together, and are really into the game.

10. Dtay: Bright newcomer, can obviously work an economic micro game.

11. The Black Sword: Like Dtay. He's one of the players I only know through CivStats and demos in PB13. I'm probably being arrogant and lacking in complete information in saying I wasn't impressed with how quickly and totally he collapsed in that game.

12. Me! The three newcomers above are all better at civ mechanics than me but I'm working on it. I intend to try and bring some more analytics to the table in this game. Civ is about this, but it's also about being able to adapt and get outside the sandbox when the need arises. I have had some dumb ideas about the larger workings of the game. Maybe 10% of them I've learned are dumb. Another 10% I'm hoping to learn when the PB13 threads open up to me. lol Civ is not a game totally figured out, and I'm pretentious enough to think that in the set of things where I'd go against conventional wisdom, there's a small subset where conventional wisdom is what is wrong.

13. Xenu: He has the experience. Is he learning from past mistakes?

14. Boldly Going Nowhere: I don't know much about him unjoined with Xenu. He could be lower than this, playing on his own.

15. wetbandit: He's a decent player. If he learns, he can get higher and do well. I can't tell if the aggression he has shown is an irreducible part of his nature or if he judged it calmly to be the best course of action at the time.

16. Oxyphenbutazone + BaII: BaII alone would be much lower and hasn't shown evidence of solid play yet. Oxy is a mystery to me, like Sutt his mechanics and analytical ability seem very strong. (See PB14.) What he hasn't shown is the ability to adapt, show game sense, and play out of the sandbox. But if he gets a start where all he has to do is optimize micro, he could be stronger than this.

17. yuris125: He's experienced, he's been teamed with no less than Krill and Mackoti before. Why am I so unimpressed?

18. Molach: I know he's a very smart guy. He hasn't seemed to show it on the Civ board yet, but he could have a breakout game someday.

19. Dhalphir: He hasn't shown a really good game yet but I still think he's a smart guy who could reach a much higher level than where he is now.

20. Jowy: I can't say anything about Jowy that hasn't been said before.

21. AutomatedTeller: Again, I don't know much about him.

22. Catwalk: He may contend for the most awesome naming scheme and a great thread to glance at to study edge cases of the human condition. Personally, I don't think he's that bad a player.

23. Bacchus: I think he's getting better too. But his aggression and lack of belief that he is playing against human beings puts a firm ceiling on his level of play.

24. BRickAstley + Mardoc: I know nothing of Mardoc. If Brick is the turn player, I haven't seen any signs of him being a world beater before. Depending on Mardoc, I could be wildly underestimating this ranking.

25. Azza: Surely if you get screwed so badly in every game you play, eventually you have to look at the only common element which is you, right?

26. Cheater Hater: I'd put him lower, except his aggression could give him the edge over someone not expecting it.

27. Whosit: Is he someone who wants to learn? Or someone who wants to play a game and have fun at his level from PB2, and not challenge his mind too much. I suspect the second, but could be wrong.

28. Hashoosh: A bright guy, but seems very green about the game. He seems a bit like Dhalphir with even less experience.

29. Caledorn: Nice guy, I don't know how good at the game he is.

30. Qgqqqqq: Has he ever played a game himself before? My impression of him is that he's a Catwalk without lesser knowlege of Civ mechanics.

31. Nakor: He wasn't one of the better players in PB2 and I don't know if he's gotten any better since then.

32. or (???) Barry Lyndon: This guy could be Bantams, or he could be a SevenSpirits smurf, or absolutely anything in between.

33. MYKI: I wonder if this guy could beat Prince level.

34. Sullla. I don't expect him to finish well in this game, though if he decides to go rogue in his reporter role and start using his doomsday units to capture and hold land, he could be a contender.
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(March 6th, 2014, 11:57)WilliamLP Wrote:
(March 6th, 2014, 10:52)NobleHelium Wrote: Interesting list. Care to do the skill ranking now? wink

3. Scooter: He's a question mark without Pindicator. But my guess is that he's the brains behind the operation, and if he brings the obsession to this game that he does to post count he'll do really well. His "social macro" is arguably the best of all.

{4-???-8}. Likely solid veteran tier of players I know little about:

Cyneheard, Ruff_Hi, Pindicator, darreljs, dazedroyalty

Someone clearly didn't pay attention to our ranking. lol wink
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(March 6th, 2014, 21:58)NobleHelium Wrote: Someone clearly didn't pay attention to our ranking. lol wink

I'm not aiming for well researched, objective, or carefully considered. Lurkers looking for an authoritative list with these qualities clearly should seek out the Gasium tier list instead, which trumps this one handily.

I also don't think I could do a very good job matching participants in this game to pro-wrestlers, so I hope nobody asks for that.
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(March 4th, 2014, 15:08)WilliamLP Wrote: I'm going to oversimplify and say there are two schools of thought for Civ openings. There's what I'll call the Seven / Krill style - basically expand horizontally to the very teetering edge of stagnation, keeping an army of horse archers to make sure that nobody can challenge you on this. This leads to the next phase which is consolidating that land lead and coming out (eventually) on top. The other style I'll call the Mackoti style, which is to slow down a bit on early expansion, but dominate in tech, and use that advantage to conquer a weaker neighbor or two.

What you're calling the Seven / Krill style is much more Krill's style than mine. It would be more accurate to group me with mackoti here.

How I would describe it:

Krill - focus on claiming contested land and gaining population at the expense of tech
Mackoti - focus on claiming key contested items (mostly wonders/first-to bonuses), making a strong capital, and maintaining a tech advantage
Me - focus on greedily maximizing total net yields, claiming contested items opportunistically
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There's also the novice style - focus entirely on best city sites without much regard for defensibility or distance from capital. wink To be fair though, he's since modified that to be less aggressive since his experiences in his solo PBEMs.
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