(March 5th, 2014, 18:45)Krill Wrote: Why is the lurker thread exploding?
Turns out Xenu is Andrew Weil, and we've all been quizzing him on his elegant solution to Fermat's Last Theorem.
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
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[PB16 SPOILERS] SevenSpirits goes off the deep end and finds Krill
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Turns out Xenu is Andrew Weil, and we've all been quizzing him on his elegant solution to Fermat's Last Theorem.
Andrew Weil is a doctor, so you should be quizzing Xenu about healthy eating habits and stuff like that. Andrew Wiles, on the other hand, is that Fermat guy, according to Google.
Just had a look in game. Goreripper has declared on Mike, lots of whips on both sides, and 2Metraninja has built HG. I've left notes in game, but basically it boils down to this: I think we don't want to build too many settlers this time, just fill out our continent, get court houses and spread religion. And get out more scouts to make sure that war is a real hot war.
Really though, you should post F9. PS. Considering a temple in next city going for a GP to get a low odds GP seems a possible play. Thoughts?
Right, here's the last set of pics.
 So Goreripper revolted civics (see, why did he get machinery before feudalism?) resulting in a turn of anarchy, and also declared war on Mikehendi and whipped 5 cities. Not sure what's going on here, but 1) I'm happy about the broken trade relations between the two, and 2) I don't think much will happen in this war. If Gore was serious about hurting Mike, wouldn't he have declared like 3t sooner and prevented the merchant from going through? Wouildn't we see a single unit positioned to hit Mike, or a city capture? Wouldn't he wait to whip until he's not in anarchy? I think it's more likely that he's preparing for war with Hashoosh, the obvious target, and is hoping to throw him off with a fake declaration. However, I've also noticed he typically plays his turns in 3-6 minutes, and his thread is called "Goreripper. Here is where I wait for the realization to set in so we can all move on." and his last post in the tech thread was "So are we grinding on in this increasingly farcical game again? Should I play?" So we can't necessarily judge his actions of someone who's trying to win. It's possible he thinks that trying to drag down Mike will cause the game to end. Ultimately, I don't know. But I think we're playing for the bad case, which is him knighting Hashoosh. Mike whipping his cities may actually have nothing to do with the war. His golden age just ended, and while he was in slavery last turn since he revolted back out of caste, you don't really want to whip in a golden age anyway. So his whips make perfect sense without war. (In fact, he may be racing to get a city or two from bantams.) But he also may be paranoid about Goreripper's intention, or just trying to warn Goreripper away. As for the rest: Yeah, someone inconsequential built HG. Awesome! Mike built SoZ in case I didn't mention it before. And we had 3 more scientist births. My guess is 2 are from Mikehendi. Demos. Not bad food and land area. And that food isn't just pop - it's growth. When I took this pic I think we had just a bit more pop than Mike (16% to 15% or so, probably less). So that's like 100 pop to 95 maybe, which means we have food surplus of about 159 compared to his 97ish. Indeed, we have 11 out of 24 cities growing this turn. MFG also looks dominant now that Mikehendi is out of the golden age. And we're hardly even trying, there.  Here are the graphs we have. (And we're one short of Kuro's.) With courthouses on the way we should be able to pick up Mike's pretty quick too.    Cities. Still many getting up to speed. Still many in need of Taoism. But plenty of happiness and health.  Civics. Next turn we revolt to Bureau and Slavery.  Upkeep costs. I think we are kicking everyone's asses here. Interestingly, a courthouse in every city would reduce these costs by more than 50% of what's shown, because those numbers have already been reduced by 20% in a lot of places by Ikhandas. Total discount is going to be 70% off the original. 
Revolted to Bureaucracy. That boosted our breakeven tech rate by about 25%. Started whipping some courthouses; that will help too. Tech set to Metal Casting - due in 5t I think. MoM will finish on its own in 8t, or 1t sooner if whipped. At that point we are free to go back to pacifism if we want.
So Krill. Once we build 4 mines, our capital in a golden age is worth 32 base hammers per turn. With OR, Forge, and Bureau, that can go up to 64hpt. That is a 10t Taj Mahal build (Taj is 700h) without whipping (but with chopping the ivory forest). Nationalism costs 2.7k beakers. It will be about 11t of tech if we produce 200bpt. I'm expecting Mikehendi to take Nationalism with Liberalism in about 5 turns. As far as I can tell he just got education and alphabet. I'm further expecting him to: 1) Want to build 7 libraries (these may have been some or all of his whipping spree), 7 universities (these could have been in his whipping spree too - I might have missed him getting Education a turn before), and Oxford in his capital. (Oxford is 400h.) 2) Switch into Nationalism and draft out an army of Musketeers. If he does the former, that ties up his capital for a while. If he does the latter, that removes the bureaucracy bonus. It's not out of the question that he does both. I don't know that he'd expect to have to hurry. Now let's look at the hammer capabilities of every capital we've revealed. Retep's presumed original spot does 19hpt. Ours does 19hpt. Hashoosh's does 23hpt. Gore's does 24hpt. If we double these numbers for the bureau + OR + forge bonuses, the expected max non-GA output of anyone's city is 48hpt. So for Mike that's at best 8t Oxford and 14t Taj. (If Mike triggers a 2-man GA to build Taj, of course, that throws things off, but this seems unlikely to me. He's just spent 1 guy on a GA, 1 guy on a merchant mission and probably a scientist bulbing education too, and it looks like he just set up to bulb philo as well. And now he's back out of caste system.) How about non-capitals? The best hammer city on our entire continent makes 24hpt. Without bureaucracy that's at best 36hpt towards a wonder. Even in a great case, with 4 forests, that's a 16t build. I think we can get a forge + National Epic up in Night Watch in about 12 turns. Then it's 5t to make a great person, and we can trigger a golden age. In the meantime, We've spent ~9t teching MC, Aesthetics, Literature, leaving 8t towards Nationalism. We finish Nationalism in a couple GA turns and build the Taj in the rest, 8-whipping it at the end if desired. So I guess that's Taj in about 25 turns best case. (OK: not best best case. Micro optimization could make it less, but this is something like best case if we just play it by feel.) What do you think? I think it's close, but that we have a competitive advantage in going for Taj due to not having sprung the 1-man GA yet and not having conflicting needs to conquer a neighbor and/or build oxford. And of course, according to this plan, we'll have MoM so it's really good for us. As a bonus, we get a 1/7 chance of popping out an engineer for the next GP, so we could just tech Nationalism and start the golden age with Taj directly. I think it's worth keeping this plan in mind for now, and certainly worth ensuring that Night Watch can get its forge/NE/great person done ASAP as that's pretty strong regardless. The main issue with this plan is it's ignoring military. We're entering a part of the game where quite a few players are getting medieval military techs like feudalism and soon guilds, while we still lack classical ones and archery. We can fit archery into the plan easily, but I don't know if we have the tech power to slot in machinery (for maces/xbows - we don't have monarchy so feudalism is harder to get). (On this topic though, nationhood + machinery = absolutely fantastic military solution for us.) Final note: what potential plans could Mikehendi have that start with Lib->nationalism and include a taj build? (I don't think we care about the other ones.) 1) anarchy for nationhood, draft musketeers 2) have 1 GP saved somehow and produce another using just PHI + NE, golden age #2, swap 3) Research Feud-Machinery-Guilds-Banking-Economics, golden age #2, swap to nationhood 4) Taj ASAP in capital before Oxford, swap in Taj GA 5) Taj in capital after Oxford, swap in Taj GA 6) Ignore nationhood entirely until rifles
I think we go for Nat; worst case scenario we do all the stuff prior and then save gold until we can research it at 100% and see what happens.
I also expect to make a lot more than 200 bpt at break even by that point.
MC - Lit are the techs we want most anyway, and Nationalism can reasonably follow soon after, with nationhood being quite strong since we are SPI. I think it's a good plan, having tightened it up some while playing the subsequent turn (while RB was down).
Another thing that happened while RB was down: Krill: Is circumnavigation possible on this map? Me: shouldn't be. serdoa said water level was below threshold want to double check? what's the land tile count on the map? Krill: 2289 possible land score Me: either I'm using the wrong numbers or circ is possible... I remember dimensions as 92x40 so 62% land Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I read the mapmaker-provided info as saying "circumnav not available" but it actually says "circum-nav available". And because I thought it was clearly stated by Serdoa, who I trust to get that right, I didn't bother ever checking in-game. So I'm pretty annoyed at myself about that. REALLY annoyed. Because we could easily have it by now if I knew that it was a thing. The fact that no one else has claimed it by now is just bizarre. It's turn 125, circumnavigation is trivially available with workboats, and no one has it yet? I expect better of some of my opponents. This isn't like a wonder which is hard to build because there's no marble or stone. If we'd built simply a second exploring workboat we'd have it quite a few turns ago. Anyway, we have to try for it because it's far too big a prize. So we're sacrificing a lighthouse that was going to be chopped next turn to get a galley out instead. The galley can ferry an impi over to Gaspar's continent.
March 9th, 2014, 04:16
(This post was last modified: March 9th, 2014, 04:16 by SevenSpirits.)
Foreign news: Goreripper got guilds and has whipped a few cities. Hashoosh has feudalism and whipped a lot this turn. No surprises there but I'm glad that Hashoosh is whipping.
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