After completing chops last turn, the workers moved to the wheat and completed a road, allowing the settler to make it to the grass forest hill where it will found our second city next turn. This was the perfect time to swap to slavery so I did that. The workers will then each farm the wheat on turns 30-1 and on turn 32 one (Avalanche Peak) will finish the farm while the other (Black Canyon) moves 1W and lays half of a road. On the following turn, 33, worker A will finish the road and worker B will move SW/S and once again put in half of a road. Turn 34 will have worker B once again finish the road and worker A will put half of a road on the corn while I wait for borders to pop at EoT. On turn 35 I will finish the road and begin farming the corn. The corn will be improved on T37 whether I finish the half-completed road, but this gives me defensive flexibility with my warrior, should anything show up. Barb warriors will likely be on the prowl by this time.
City #2 will begin on a warrior and grow to size 3. After that I will almost certainly build a second settler. The capital will complete this worker on T35 and then build a warrior on T38. After this I will likely begin the granary, which should just be available on that turn. Then some combination of grow to size 4, whip the settler and overflow for the granary. I haven't decided 100% on how this is going to look, but I have plenty of time to decide.
If you're the kind to enjoy sandbox sims that will never hold up to reality, the spoiler below is for you.
You can see what I've built on the notepad. Five workers! That's just not going to work. Also, I have nearly finished the second Great Scientist, which isn't particularly useful yet, but most likely I did this because I had too few tiles to work.
Otherwise, the military is good, at least compared to my other attempt...
Yeah, 5 warriors...
I'll kill the barracks build (in the second city, named T30) and make that a swarm of warriors or some archers instead. Nine workers should be good for this number of cities in this time frame as long as they continue to be produced. But that river wheat tile SE of the capital is still unused, as mackoti pointed out previously. I have not yet divined a good plan to use that sooner. Rather, I've continued to expand outward in area that I believe I'm more likely to contest with others, as well as aiming for cultural control over seafood. Again, plenty of time to sort this out.
One other nice thing is that with all the gold I've taken from huts, I'm running at 100% for a very long time, all the way through Math IIRC.
Before moving the scout, I remembered that there was a lion on the coastal tundra forest, and that if I moved to that tile I would certainly be next to the lion, so the tundra forest was my choice. Silvery! If I can get this, my forges are going to be awesome.
(April 18th, 2014, 13:53)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: If you're the kind to enjoy sandbox sims that will never hold up to reality, the spoiler below is for you.
What i dont understand why are you so keen with the city for the rice?Why dont you plant a city 1E from the wheat and let rice and cooper for the city planted for stone?I know is a bit harder to shift the workers but i think this like third city worth way more, having wheat fish and cow and place from some very nice cotages(this could be your second cotage city).
Just a thought.
(April 18th, 2014, 13:53)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: If you're the kind to enjoy sandbox sims that will never hold up to reality, the spoiler below is for you.
t80? A bit past the sandbox horizon there!
still, nice looking empire
You're 100% right, there are severely diminishing returns in looking that far ahead. Basically none of that is useable information, except in helping me understand the effect of how certain decisions impact me in ~20t. For instance, based on what I know of the map right now (without knowledge of where my horses will be, for example), I think it is better to build a granary in the capital when it is immediately available after the warrior completes rather than another worker or settler. Contrary to this, it appears better for me to not build a granary on the same turn after city #2 (Lake) completes its warrior build, but rather to build either worker or settler there at size 3/4. I haven't run it in a few days, so I don't remember the specific details. Initially I pushed expansion in both, getting me to the four cities by T46-50 as I had done in earlier sims, but after this early burst of expansion there is a long lag until the next burst. I think the granary build will enable me to space out founding cities and make the capital stronger sooner compared to just pushing expansion. Running the sim that far ahead actually helped me to see the effects of certain decisions so it isn't a total waste. But yeah, I think that most of that information won't be that helpful as I get new information. Also, I enjoy the process of sandboxing over an AI-stomp.
(April 18th, 2014, 14:51)mackoti Wrote: What i dont understand why are you so keen with the city for the rice?Why dont you plant a city 1E from the wheat and let rice and cooper for the city planted for stone?I know is a bit harder to shift the workers but i think this like third city worth way more, having wheat fish and cow and place from some very nice cotages(this could be your second cotage city).
Just a thought.
TBH, I'm not keen on the rice itself, but rather with sharing the cow and getting the fish into play ASAP. The cow is already improved and shared from the capital and this helps get the work boat out faster while growing to size 2, where the new city can use both tiles. The rice is not actually all that helpful for the first 20 (?) turns of the city's existence, especially at the cost of five worker turns for a gain of one food. There are much better improvements to be made elsewhere with that labor.
And, to be totally honest, somehow I never really noticed the wheat/cow/fish location. After running through this in the sandbox so many times, certain decisions almost become automated almost to the point of habit because the decision had been made one way or the other on so many previous attempts. I haven't looked at the game in several days now, and the sandbox has been neglected even longer, so I hope to have a fresh look at it the next time I go in. This is kind of like writing, where you churn out the document in one sitting you think it's good, but when you come back some time later with fresh eyes for the edit/rewrite phase you see things that are glaringly bad that you would write a completely different way.
Storm Point, on Lake Yellowstone, an easy, loop-trail hike from the road and minutes away from the best accommodations in Yellowstone, Lake Hotel. I lived (very briefly) at the Lake location, more simply referred to as Lake, in YNP back in 2006 prior to being banned from the park for a year due to a...misunderstanding with management.
The workers began to farm the wheat and will finish on T32. Warrior first to grow, because we really ought to get some defensive units. It won't be much longer before the animals are hunted to extinction and replaced by Barb warriors, especially with several teams getting out second cities now, or in the next few turns.
T29 -
MYKI - whipped 1 pop. First whip of game?
Dazed - tech from hut.
dtay - second city founded.
T30 -
pindicator - 2 pop whip.
novice/krill - 1 pop whip.
Dazed - second city founded.
Dhal's scout is still sitting there. I'm not sure why. Is he hiding from barb animals? Is he keeping the area spawn busted for an incoming city? Did he forget that the scout is there? I'm perplexed.
My scout may not live long enough to get killed by warriors. I really hope I can pop that hut before this scout dies. Note the impassable ice. That makes a nice, back line neighbor. The last comment to make here is that the visible tiles are actually the coastline all the way to at least south of the sheep tile.
Now that I think of it, I experienced a very rare close encounter wolf sighting in Yellowstone the day I took the picture at the top of this post. Wolves had been all but eliminated from Yellowstone until restoration efforts in the last 20 years. Now they can be seen, but most frequently in the Lamar Valley in the northeast of the park, and almost always at a long distance through binoculars.
Number one in land area. Am I the first CRE civ to a second city? I suppose I could go back through the thread and note all the different population changes and compare them to creative civs, but that is too much work and I haven't kept any of this on a spreadsheet.
Quote:TBH, I'm not keen on the rice itself, but rather with sharing the cow and getting the fish into play ASAP. The cow is already improved and shared from the capital and this helps get the work boat out faster while growing to size 2, where the new city can use both tiles. The rice is not actually all that helpful for the first 20 (?) turns of the city's existence, especially at the cost of five worker turns for a gain of one food. There are much better improvements to be made elsewhere with that labor.
Lets see : with 2 workers wheat is improved in 3 turns(farste then workboat will be finished) and you'll have a 5/1/1 tile which is beter then the fish tile and you can produce a workboat while growing and in 5 turns you gte the cows as well, and the net gain is your capitol keep to use the cow .So in 10 turns after setling you'll have a great city working wheat , cow and fish.
I will stop pestering you with this , sorry if i was to insistent.
Quote:TBH, I'm not keen on the rice itself, but rather with sharing the cow and getting the fish into play ASAP. The cow is already improved and shared from the capital and this helps get the work boat out faster while growing to size 2, where the new city can use both tiles. The rice is not actually all that helpful for the first 20 (?) turns of the city's existence, especially at the cost of five worker turns for a gain of one food. There are much better improvements to be made elsewhere with that labor.
Lets see : with 2 workers wheat is improved in 3 turns(farste then workboat will be finished) and you'll have a 5/1/1 tile which is beter then the fish tile and you can produce a workboat while growing and in 5 turns you gte the cows as well, and the net gain is your capitol keep to use the cow .So in 10 turns after setling you'll have a great city working wheat , cow and fish.
I will stop pestering you with this , sorry if i was to insistent.
Keep pestering, I'm benefiting from having a different perspective. This ends up being a second commerce city sooner than I would otherwise have one, and probably will be the key to settling stone. I have not yet decided how much I'm willing to sacrifice to get the stone settled, though. With so many close, good city locations to settle, it is certainly a tradeoff. Controlling the sea lanes will be important though, so it may be a necessity to push for the stone to secure back line cities. As in all else, more information is needed. But keep commenting! Community interaction is one of the best parts of playing civ for me. MORE POSTS!!!
I've slacked on reporting the last couple of days, and will likely do so through the weekend. Xenu is coming to town for a visit and reporting time, like sobriety, will likely be at a premium.
T31
22 gold? I suppose it's better than a swift kick in the nuts, but not by much. I'm just glad the scout has survived to continue exploring. I think this is the fifth hut that I've popped, so I don't have any room to complain.
A last look at demos before my third food resource is online.
T32
I didn't take a picture, but my scout survived the next wolf attack and only took two hits. Onward!
The farm is complete and I've started dragging a road toward the corn south of Lake. Dhal is still sitting there with his scout. I'm not sure what that is all about. Maybe he figures if he stares at the stone forever that he'll get to keep it? Young man, go scout!
That's better. It also appears that the previous rival leader in land area has settled a second city, among other details. I'm at the point of not wanting to spend the time figuring this stuff out. Barbs will be replacing animals soon, and with another ~5-6 cities settled (I think, I could go look it up), barbs will be entering borders to ruin my fun. I should probably make a detour to Archery after Pottery to have something that will clobber barbs and not wreck my plans.
Mardoc has grown his capital nice and tall. I can only assume that he is researching BW now and that he will revolt and slave out his settler soon. He has not revolted into slavery yet, just into Buddhism. I finally got graphs on him this turn and shifted spending to Dhal. It appears that Mardoc has also shifted spending somewhere else, so he has at least met another opponent. I don't know this for certain, but it's my working theory. Graphs:
I've spent more time in the sand than if I'd been at the beach for an entire summer. Sandbox fun:
I should probably try a run or two where I actually build some axes and spears. Or, just stop until I find my horses. But this is what passes for fun for me sometimes.
I posted a Woody Guthrie song a while back, so how about a short song from his son Arlo.
Man all sims are looking very good.but i dont think you shoul setle the filler city so fast , you have it for turn 81 or something.beter get that corn first.
Note the impassable ice. That makes a nice, back line neighbor. 
