"Don't move or the bunny gets it" - German Joey plays Cyrus the Virus of Khmer

[GermanJoey]

thank you!

Aki, who do you think I should pick here? I won't have time to try everything I've hoped, and so I've narrowed my shortlist to roughly this order:

• Montezuma
  
• Tokugawa
  
• Boudica
  
• Washington
  
• Wang Kong
  

Montezuma is most likely to give me a nervous breakdown, so that might be exciting, but Tokugawa is definitely the coolest and Boudica is potentially the weirdest.

[GermanJoey]

Hmmm actually, I need both AH and BW I think. I can see three possiblities:

5 Civs that start with either Agriculture or Hunting + The Wheel, which I'll call Set 1:

• Babylon
  
• Egypt
  
• France
  
• Mongolia
  
• Ottomans
  

5 Civs that start with either Agriculture or Hunting + Mining, which I'll call Set 2:

• China
  
• Ethiopia
  
• Germany
  
• Khmer
  
• Russia
  

1 Civ that starts with both Agriculture + Hunting, which I'll call Set 3:

• Zulu
  

My initial micro plans reveal that if I want AH then BW:
1.) Set 1 has to make 2 farms, the first of which doesn't really help the initial settler or techs at all (would be best if I want Cha)
2.) Set 2 has waste a few turns on the 1 farm, but then still has time to chop the settler to completion, saving 2 turns.
3.) Set 3 is the only way to make a Productive leader work (i.e. it can get AH in time for the first worker to pasture the pig), but obviously hurts in beakers a bit compared to the others

So the question becomes: do I want Productive and will there be any Productive leaders left by the time the snake comes back around? Hmm...

[GermanJoey]

Got a chance to map this out a little more fully... I've pretty thoroughly convinced myself that I need to open with Hunting/Mining, which leaves Ethiopia, Germany, or Khmer as real choices for me. The two livestock are my only visible resources, and so I need to get AH first, whether it be via prereq or not. I'll then either need TW for Pottery (if I go with Washington or maybe Boudica) or Mining for BW (all my other choices). For the Agr leaders, there's also the option to move to get both cows in my BFC, although there is a fear that I'll end up settling on horses or bronze.

I want to try one more test with Mongolia, to see how that works out with Washington/Boudica if I move to the 2cow spot. Otherwise, I'll pick either Germany or Khmer... Khmer is probably the stronger pick for a lot of reasons, but Germany has that new uber UU and I am German Joey after all...

[GermanJoey]

I've been agonizing all night whether to take one of my top leaders first, and hope I can still get a Hunting/Agr + Mining civ, or the civ first, and then pick a leader from whosoever was left. I have no idea if the starts are mostly-mirrored like PB16 though, haven't read enough other RB games to know whether that's a general thing. (and nobody's posting in my thread anymore haha, I guess too many off-color jokes? If so, I apologize, just goofing off, didn't mean to offend...) Anyways, I felt like my start would be highly risky without it:

• I really want hunting for the super scout!! It's seriously super useful, especially with mini-goody huts all over the place!
  
• On the first turn, I can move the scout 1S 1SW to check to see if there's anything cool in those trees. Maybe a lumbermill or farm???
  
• My spreadsheet shows that I can play a variety of openings that are all pretty decent depending on what leader I get, whereas Agr/Wheel or Hunting/Wheel basically need to move to the 2cow spot and go slow-worker -> 3pop settler -> granary or else they waste LOADS of worker turns, which is way worse than tons of pastures + chops regardless of where I move to.
  
• Moving makes me really nervous... only 2 resources visible, and so its HIGHLY likely I have one of copper, horses, or iron in my starting BFC.
  

At any list, my long-list of preferred leaders is pretty long, and none on the short list should be highly contended except for Tokugawa, so I should get at least SOMEONE I want.

Now, why the Khmer over the others? I think I want one of Agr, Cha, or Pro for sure (I'm less charmed by Imp), and the UB works well with all 3 of those. Besides, the Ballista Elephant (or as I like to call it, the "Barista Elephant", which is sorta like an overgrown St. Bernard but with a different sort of brew in its barrel under the neck) might not be as good as Ormos or the possibly amazing Riesengarde, but who knows if I'll even make it to Chemistry, much less in a reasonable time frame? The map is of Huge size and tech scaling is on, so even though the early techs are still reasonably priced, the later ones should be pretty goddamn expensive. For all I know, the map could be tighter than I expect and I'll find myself at the ass-end of a horse-archer waterfall.

I hope I don't come to regret this pick!!! I'll leave y'all with a hopeful preview of times to come:

[GermanJoey]

I thought about a potential BW -> AH Productive opening last night, and it starts SOOOO fast... 2 workers and a settler by turn 23! I was really kicking myself for not just picking Tokugawa or Qin or Churchill or whoever! However, I then realized that my workers won't have squat to do except chop and build PH mines until like turn 28 unless I also start with hunting in addition to mining. So, I feel a little better about my choice again now.

[agent427]

Did Ballista Elephants get changed in the mod? I saw that regular elephants have been knocked down to 7 strength,

[GermanJoey]

That's a good question... I'm actually not sure! If they *ARE* still 8 strength, then I'm really really happy I picked the Khmer!!! Assuming I have ivory, of course...

[aki]

thank you!

Aki, who do you think I should pick here? I won't have time to try everything I've hoped, and so I've narrowed my shortlist to roughly this order:

• Montezuma
  
• Tokugawa
  
• Boudica
  
• Washington
  
• Wang Kong
  

Montezuma is most likely to give me a nervous breakdown, so that might be exciting, but Tokugawa is definitely the coolest and Boudica is potentially the weirdest.

Hmm, I read your summary of the ToW changes but I still don't think I've internalized them enough to make a "good" suggestion here, but I will say that first picking Tokugawa(despite the changes) would be so badass that it may even border on BM.

[WilliamLP]

Khmer: War Elephants reduced to 7 strength.

[GermanJoey]

Khmer: War Elephants reduced to 7 strength.

Awwwwwww....

They're still pretty good I think though! Besides, I'm picking this civ for the flexiblity of the starting techs and the UB.