RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Peter of Byzantium

[regoarrarr]

I don't think we have a choice re: Noah. If we just sit around eventually we'll get killed without doing more than being annoying, no one is going to come to our aid. At least this way we have a shot at making some real noise.

We definitely need Pottery as the next self researched tech.

Darrell

The question is whether we can pull off Operation Noah while still saving Athens. If we have iron either SW or S-SW, we wouldn't need to Noah, we could get 6-7 archers and put 2-3 on the hill covering our workers.

[sunrise089]

After discussing with regoarrarr via chat, my (but not his) build order is Oracle -> Archer -> Archer -> Galley -> Settler.

Sail the galley offshore as soon as it's built so they don't see it. Same with the settler - quickly pick it up + an archer and sail away. Try to plant the new city quickly (the galley could scout a spot while the settler is built) and then grab either the two workers or one worker and one archer before our cap is captured.

The question is, can we do this before the Ottomans build swords?

PS - One good thing - no Great Prophet messing up our pool

[Jabah]

Is there any chance that one of your 'friends' has IW and had scouted your land ?
Maybe you could then beg them to tell you if and where is the closest metal

[regoarrarr]

Is there any chance that one of your 'friends' has IW and had scouted your land ?
Maybe you could then beg them to tell you if and where is the closest metal

I've asked Jowy, IKZ and Sullla - Jowy responded to the email but did not mention that. IKZ has not responded and Sullla has not either (though I assume that he will shortly, and I also think he'll tell us if he knows of any iron)

[regoarrarr]

food 16/26
oracle 127/150

Oracle Options

Option A:
2t of +3fpt, +4hpt
3t of +1fpt, +5hpt (Oracle)
1t of +3fpt, +4hpt

puts us at 2/28, 4/X, Oracle in 5t

Option B:
6t of +3fpt, +4hpt
puts us at 8/28, 1/X, Oracle in 6t

Option C:
Archer for 1t @ +4fpt, +3hpt,
T2: Whip (13 hammers overflow
T3-4: Work plains forest, crabs and hill (1fpt, 5hpt)
Oracle in 4t (I think?)

Option D:
Double whip a barracks when we grow in 3t

Possibly others?

Perhaps though we need to work backwards for Operation Noah, and make sure that we're at size 4 in 10t so we can immediately double whip a galley.

[darrelljs]

If we really think Athens is toast in the near future (and I am not convinced of that), then a Barracks makes little sense. I like the build order you proposed sunrise. I think we should get a Worker and an Archer over there as soon as the Galley is done, then whip the Settler and get the other Worker and the Settler over there. After that just whip Archers and hold out as long as possible. It would be nice to get the Great Prophet from The Oracle, that +2H will be highly useful.

TBH, I want them to see the Galley .

For The Oracle plan, I like your option B regoarrarr. I don't think we need to rush The Oracle with another whip. I think we could work the Wheat and Grassland Forest Hill to get a pair of 1/2 tiles and then the Crab (and a Grassland Forest tile after growing).

Darrell

[Rowain]

Re: settling all the land - If we die then Jowy is back into a settling race he may loose, or he may win and create new hostility with the Ottomans. After all, they've proven they don't like aggressive settlements

I think its quite a difference if you settle aggressivly right next to your opponents capital or next to an border-city which is ~10 tiles from the cap . Besides no matter if he looses some of the territory to Ottomans he will still have more land than when you survive (since you would settle some cities too).

Re: usefulness of a meatshield - if nothing else we provide early warning. What's better for Jowy - to have his border city conquered, or to have his neighbors die, learn the timing and composition of the enemy stack, and have our units die (and take Ottoman units with us) rather than his?

Truth is even if it gets conquered he would get more out of a border city which belongs to him than with you alive sitteng there. At least it would be his city Besides once People see the powergraphs of each other it becomes a lot harder to make a surprise-attack.
And a crippled Meatshield would not kill many Enemy-units instead those Units would earn a lot of easy promotions.
Additional there is the risk: A crippled Meatshield could be turned into an enemy when my opponent promises him some of my Cities.
Better you have only to worry about Janissaries than about Janissaries coupled with Cataphracts

I'm really torn if I should root for you or not: On one hand I would like to see your plan come to fruition and lots of Catapracts wreaking havoc to others (and more of rego's diplomacy ) on the other Hand your Paris so absolutly deserves a punishment that I'm quite happy if you recive it

[Jabah]

Don't forget that there is a forrest you could chop into Athens BFC in the island (was reply to : send a worker there)

[regoarrarr]

For The Oracle plan, I like your option B regoarrarr. I don't think we need to rush The Oracle with another whip. I think we could work the Wheat and Grassland Forest Hill to get a pair of 1/2 tiles and then the Crab (and a Grassland Forest tile after growing).

Darrell

Okay well that's what we are doing so no need to make any changes.

For the record (and I'm not sure if you know this or just mistyped or what), but wheat is 2f1h. We only have 1 1f, 2h tile (a plains forest). We are currently working (f/h/c)

crabs 4/0/2
Grass forest 2/1/0
Plains forest 1/2/0

Our other options are the 2/1/0 wheat or 0/2/0 plains hills

[darrelljs]

I knew it but didn't realize it . With a Granary, 2F/1H tiles are pretty decent, certainly better than 1F/2H tiles.

Darrell