RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Peter of Byzantium

[regoarrarr]

can't understand how you can feel so strongly that it was basically a backstab, horrible move and poor strategy. You're basically offering him nothing in exchange for him sticking his neck out for you in early part of the game.

Well, I don't know that I feel quite that strongly. But setting aside whether he SHOULD have done it, the fact remains that he had the chance to save us, and he chose not to.

When playing Diplomacy, I invented a term called "last to screw", meaning that when you have players looking for revenge (or not really playing to win), generally, the person that they want to hurt is the last person that screwed them over. All previous slights tend to get swept under the rug in favor of the LAST person to screw you (defined however).

So I guess that's where I'm coming from. My teammates may feel differently.

[Bobchillingworth]

If you're soliciting/tallying lurker opinions on what Jowly should or shouldn't do, then put mine in the category "should not provide assistance of any kind". As has been mentioned in this thread several times, you have little to nothing that you could provide him that he cannot already take. Settling concessions are pointless since you have currently no way of stopping him from founding cities wherever he wants around your crippled (and possibly soon to be eliminated) civ. Getting you to act as a "meatshield" would be similarly self-defeating, since all gifting you metal does is help (potentially) momentarily break the choke- but your civ would still be crippled and likely in no condition to do much besides improve a few land times before Ottoman axemen show up in 3X numbers than you can produce. You would have little hope making any sort of sustained offensive, and Jowly would have made a permanent, powerful enemy. Even if you civ is able to hold out long enough to survive as "boat people" and settle an island, that still leaves Jowly with an angry Ottoman neighbor, and you in little position to assist for many turns except send over a desultory trireme or two.

Essentially, I think he's playing it safe, and you just have to suck it up.

[novice]

If you're soliciting/tallying lurker opinions on what Jowly should or shouldn't do, then put mine in the category "should not provide assistance of any kind". As has been mentioned in this thread several times, you have little to nothing that you could provide him that he cannot already take. Settling concessions are pointless since you have currently no way of stopping him from founding cities wherever he wants around your crippled (and possibly soon to be eliminated) civ. Getting you to act as a "meatshield" would be similarly self-defeating, since all gifting you metal does is help (potentially) momentarily break the choke- but your civ would still be crippled and likely in no condition to do much besides improve a few land times before Ottoman axemen show up in 3X numbers than you can produce. You would have little hope making any sort of sustained offensive, and Jowly would have made a permanent, powerful enemy. Even if you civ is able to hold out long enough to survive as "boat people" and settle an island, that still leaves Jowly with an angry Ottoman neighbor, and you in little position to assist for many turns except send over a desultory trireme or two.

Essentially, I think he's playing it safe, and you just have to suck it up.

Bah. Valid reasoning, but all irrelevant. Rego said it best: Jowy could have saved them, and chose not to. Of course they should do their best to make him regret that.

[darrelljs]

I think Sulla phrased it well...balance of power. Let's face it, Jowy isn't going to be adjacent to the Ottomans any time soon, even if we are gone. It will take time for those lands to be settled. So, if we get taken out the Ottomans lose a thorn in their side and Jowy gains nothing we weren't already offering him. It seems pretty obvious to me that (in Jowy's own words) he "doesn't like us". I don't really get that, but then I try to keep games from getting personal. I'd say offer him our GP, but I doubt it will do any good. And, uh, regoarrarr seems to be taking Jowy's obstinence personally, so I doubt he'd go for that .

I would not send the e-mail to Athlete, simply because I don't want to give them the Prophet. They attacked us, which to me is far worse then denying us support during a war. I still see them as the main enemy and the one I want to cause at least some amount of pain. They can't summon an army of Axeman out of thin air, and by then we'll be across the channel.

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Okay based on darrell's thoughts, I did not send the email (though we'll see what sunrise says), and I ended turn continuing on the settler plan of Operation Shilling.

Spiros is healing (1.0/2) but next to a Greek Phalanx.

The 2 new Ottoman chariots are unpromoted, so there is 1 C2, 1 C1 and 3 unpromoted, with 1 warrior.

T83 to settle across the channel, and that leaves us with just the 4 archers to guard us in the meantime.

[antisocialmunky]

I thought you were going Galley first so you could chop the forest into a archer/settler @ 82. Too late now though.

As for Jowy, it would have been better to help you in my opinion for many different reasons. All I'll say for the moment is that if you do sail away, you should try and get Sullla to plan out operation Gyro .

[regoarrarr]

I thought you were going Galley first so you could chop the forest into a archer/settler @ 82. Too late now though.

As for Jowy, it would have been better to help you in my opinion for many different reasons. All I'll say for the moment is that if you do sail away, you should try and get Sullla to plan out operation Gyro .

We can't start the galley as we don't have Sailing yet. It's due in 4 turns, at which point we'll have 40/100 in the settler and swap to a galley.

[regoarrarr]

Little hiccup with Operation Shilling.

The chariots have spread out and are now on all our 3 food-hammer tiles, except for obviously the crabs and the forest across the channel.

So settler is only making 6 f-h a turn, and currently due in 16.

One upside is that we are now working 2/0/1 grassland river tiles, so ETA on sailing moved from 4t to 3 :-D

[antisocialmunky]

You need some more screenshots for us lurkers. Also, is this making you grow any faster?

[darrelljs]

I was wondering when they would do that . Its easy to tell what tiles are being worked, after all. Since we are building a Settler, it doesn't impact our growth, however when we are onto the Galley it will give us one extra food per turn.

Here's the situation:



Darrell