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Meta discussion/state of the game currently

I recently watched Sulla’s League of Legends retrospective on the state of the game in its early days, roughly when I started playing in August 2010. It got me thinking about the current discussion that seems to be blowing up on reddit, where the main comments getting upvoted are those lamenting the loss of the assassin meta from the beginning of season 3. According to this point of view, it’s much more difficult to carry games in season 4, with the majority of games being decided by bad players being out of position rather than good players making plays. Nerfs to champions like LeBlanc, Zed and Riven, combined with the lowering of first blood gold, have meant that getting early kills is no longer as powerful as a more objective-focused game. I thought I’d ask a different cross-section of players – those on Realms Beyond (there are still some active players here, right?!) – for their opinions on the subject.

My point of view, which seems to be an unpopular one, is that I very much like the game in its current state. I think Riot have done an excellent job in rewarding both teamplay and coordination (which I’ll loosely call ‘strategy’ for the benefit of this discussion) and individual skill (‘mechanics’) in roughly equal measures, where previously there was a bias towards mechanics. I’ll go through some of the changes which have led to this shift now – note that this is entirely from memory so apologies for any errors.

The rise in power of supports

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In probably the biggest single change to League of Legends over the last two years, the support position has shifted incrementally from its place in season 2 (where the main supports were Sona and Soraka, glorified health and mana fountains with few opportunities to make impactful plays) to its current season 4 incarnation, where supports come in various shapes and sizes, from the initiating power of Thresh, Alistar and Leona, to the peeling potential of Janna and Nami, to the (albeit heavily nerfed) sustain bots of Sona and Soraka.

The first major shift occurred at the beginning of season 3, where Sightstone and a few new support items were introduced. As important as these changes were – Sightstone is still a huge staple of the game – there were a couple of further problems that needed solving:

- The core support champion pool was composed of champions that are very undemanding (and unsatisfying!) to play: Sona, Soraka and Taric were the main culprits here.
- Supports were still extremely gold-starved; the gold generation techniques that existed – GP10 items, runes and masteries – were expensive in terms of opportunity cost and generally ineffective. The most effective way to build a support, as demonstrated most starkly in the season 2 world championships, was often to buy boots, a Philosopher’s Stone, and wards. Nothing else, for the rest of the game.

To solve the first problem, Riot released new champions (Thresh principally) that were both mechanically demanding and impactful. They also systematically nerfed pretty much every sustain support in the game. Taric got a rework which hurt his power, and Sona got nerfed several times through season 3.

[Image: lol-trinket-guide.png]

The second problem was addressed at the beginning of season 4:

- Trinkets! These allowed every champion to place wards from the start of the game.
- New support items. The trinity of gold generation items – two of which (the most efficient two) are enabled by mechanics and active playmaking – have given supports a much bigger gold income, allowing them to itemise differently.
- Perhaps most crucially, they limited the number of active wards on the map to three per player. They also made vision wards visible, turning them into mini-objectives to be fought over.

[Image: introducing_tank_support_item.png]

But, of course, there’s an elephant in the room here. By buffing supports, you necessarily nerf other roles. No longer is bottom lane all about the AD carries. No longer are teamfights all about who can get their insane damage combo off first. The result of these buffs has been that as supports have gotten stronger, AD carries and assassins can’t carry as hard. This is something that, in my opinion, has not been recognised for what it is. The respective power of different roles is a zero-sum game; if you want supports to have more power, other roles must have less. And supports were not only under-appreciated in season 2, they WERE severely underpowered. It was very difficult to carry as a support when they were in that state; yet every team was still better off with a support than without. This meant that one role on the team was a dead role, which was terrible for the health of the game as a whole.

I also think restricting wards to three per player was a key move. Wards are still OP – it’s almost always better to have a ward than not in almost every location on the map, given their cost and the length of time they last. Supports can no longer choose how much vision they can have (which is a good thing, because the ‘One Right Answer’ to that question is as much vision as possible).

So yeah, I’ve written enough. I’m curious to see what the RB playerbase thinks. Are you happier playing the current game or past seasons of it? If so, why?

- Terror
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Wall of text hurt my eyes, so now I'm not at work I added some images! Hype!
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TLDR! :P
All kidding aside you've made some interesting arguments!

Quote:Perhaps most crucially, they limited the number of active wards on the map to three per player. They also made vision wards visible, turning them into mini-objectives to be fought over.
Not 100% sure but i think that the invisible ward doesn't count towards the 3 wards max/player. However making pink wards visible and the red trinket only worthy of use under certain conditions made Evelyn, Twitch, Shaco and Teemo annoying to play against.

Quote:The result of these buffs has been that as supports have gotten stronger, AD carries and assassins can’t carry as hard. This is something that, in my opinion, has not been recognised for what it is.
Agreed! I don't know how it is on Platinum or Diamond level but i've seen all the way up to Gold level people who either don't know about this or choose to ignore it and then you see an adc/mid get stomped/outplayed by a fed support... -.-'

That's my two cents for the moment! Waiting to see what everyone else says!

[Image: 10170826_816558838373595_4534058910945879484_n.jpg]
Never trust something that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die!
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I think that from your description the meta is healthy, but compare it to DOTA 2. The meta in that game is very fluid, with teams winning with 3-1-1 setups, 1-1-3, 2-1-2, or 2-1-1 + jungler. All are viable, and this will probably be what kills LOL. If LOL continues to be structured in a way that means that nothing but 1-1-2-jungler is viable then it will die off.
Surprise! Turns out I'm a girl!
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So long as people hate the deny mechanic, LOL will have a player base.
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The problem is that Riot have to balance the game for both solo queue and the competitive scene. Remember the whole reason is that Riot nerfed assassins and snowballing: season 3 worlds, people complained that whoever gets the first kill or the first tower usually just ends up winning the game. In fact, you can usually tell who's going to win by the first 10-15 minutes.

Now that snowballing is nerfed, I think the competitive LoL is better as a result. But in solo queue, people don't like the fact they can't win simply by getting kills, you actually need teamwork to get objectives. This seems to be a new concept for most people.
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(July 23rd, 2014, 16:39)Krill Wrote: So long as people hate the deny mechanic, LOL will have a player base.

I'm completely amazed LoL players actually still care about this.
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(July 23rd, 2014, 12:01)Dp101 Wrote: I think that from your description the meta is healthy, but compare it to DOTA 2. The meta in that game is very fluid, with teams winning with 3-1-1 setups, 1-1-3, 2-1-2, or 2-1-1 + jungler. All are viable, and this will probably be what kills LOL. If LOL continues to be structured in a way that means that nothing but 1-1-2-jungler is viable then it will die off.

I don’t think the 1-1-2-jungle meta is a huge problem, honestly. We’ve had that for, what, over 3 years now? I think there’s enough diversity in champion design to differentiate games from one another on that, rather than on the makeup of each lane. Also, I don’t know whether this is an isolated development but we’re starting to see more unconventional picks and roles – AD Tristana mid was played very recently in the LCS.

DOTA has a much more flexible setup in this way because the heroes in that game are VERY different from one another. Champions in LoL have been gradually homogenised to fit a given template more closely – most of this was done at release, but there were still DOTA-style elements in the game even then (900-range Flash, 6-second Kayle ulti, Twisted Fate having a global port as one of his non-ult skills, etc). Perhaps the only hold-out is Poppy, whose ridiculous lategame power curve is unmatched, but whose laning phase is so weak as to make her unviable.

But that setup fits DOTA as a more strategic game than LoL, which is more about mechanics, although some strategy is certainly present. This is explicit in its design philosophy; they want both in-game and out-of-game factors to decide games.
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(July 24th, 2014, 05:35)v8mark Wrote: I don’t think the 1-1-2-jungle meta is a huge problem, honestly. We’ve had that for, what, over 3 years now? I think there’s enough diversity in champion design to differentiate games from one another on that, rather than on the makeup of each lane. Also, I don’t know whether this is an isolated development but we’re starting to see more unconventional picks and roles – AD Tristana mid was played very recently in the LCS.

Apparently I am 3 months late to this thread, but since I love discussing the meta I will jump in.

I will agree though that the meta has shifted importance to the support (power is the wrong word) and will further agree that this is a good change for all the reasons you have outline Terror - deadend roles stink, more meaningful choices in items and warding. I also agree that importance is a zero sum equation in LoL.

Can't say I like the visible, but not time limited pink wards, though I will credit Riot with tinkering with that system and not creating a game balance disaster vis-à-vis the stealth champs.

Now I will start with disagreement (it engenders more discussion smile ). We have been playing with this meta for 3 years, but frankly I am kind of tired of it. I suspect that lots of the player base has departed LoL and LoL has simply captured more new players than it lost-- however that is not a long term sustainable model for Riot. Perhaps I am wrong? Champ diversity makes up for the stagnant meta...again can't agree to that. While we have 100+ champs to choose from, what we really have is a very limited number of roles?

Roles:
1. Ranged AD
2. Support (three flavors)

a. sustain
b. peel
c. engage
3. Mid (two flavors)
a. assassin
b. sustain
4. Jungler
a. Tank
b. Assassin
5. Top
a. Tank
b. Assassin
c. AP

So while it looks like you have ~10 choices you really don't. You have to have that ranged AD, you have to have a Tank (put them in jungle or top), and you have to have a support- what you are left with is really choosing the last two positions. Anyway, while there are lots of champs to choose from you have to do one of the same 10 things with them. Try not to caught up in what I have called the above various roles and offering anecdotal role/positions. wink

I would prefer folks engage the below statement
.

I will contend that there is basically 2 real meaningful Strategic choices in LoL that diverge from the meta.
1. Play without any AP champs, and take Zed or Jayce (or similar mid)
2. Double AP, that is Play an AP top and an AP mid
On League of Legends I am "BertrandDeHorn"
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LoL core gameplay is really good. That's what has kept people playing this game for years. There is very little content, but it is enjoyable to play. I think the idea of the meta game being stagnant is an outdated concept. The roles are as much part of the game as anything else. This whole genre of video games was created by the players. It started as a Warcraft mod. Beginning of LoL didn't have the roles we know today, but at one point players started playing with those roles almost exclusively. It became part of the game, and today it's standard. Those roles are recognized by Riot and they balance the game around them. There is enough variance in games to keep the gameplay fun, which is why millions of people keep playing on the same map, the same game mode, the same roles, where every game has a laning phase and a team fighting phase etc. People will be quitting LoL because playing ANY game for years will eventually make you tired of it, even if there's nothing essentially wrong with it and it's still fun. I can't agree with the idea that Riot is rapidly bleeding players due to the top/mid/jungler/adc/support model.
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