Super Massive Enhanced Gameplay Mod

[AdrienIer]

Administrative is IMO very dependent on the civ you play and makes you rely more on infrastructure. The rathaus becomes a -85% maintenance for example, which might be OP. The religious civics are great, there will be choices to make throughout the whole game. Also I love West Point's new effect, the problem with the late wonders is that they're not always very useful given their short lifespan, but this one is gamechanging.

[Krill]

Well, this is certainly a big 0.0.0.1 change (and I know it's because no games have been played with the mod yet).

I increment the number every time there I make a change to a mod, but not for posting change logs.

I'm assuming Spiritual->Administrative is a straight swap? Administrative is very interesting, and I have no clue what to think of it--my gut says it's too powerful, and my stylistic senses don't like that it's +10% what it already does in most cases, but straight extra hammers early and the hammers per water resource for the coastal trifecta (even the Harbor that doesn't care about production at all). Maybe have it just add an additional 5-10% whenever boosting by a percentage (so stuff like the Library you already have, along with late-game stuff), along with adding +1/+1/+1 to all city center tiles (likely to be changed to +0/+1/+1 when the former proves to be broken).

Yeah, it'd be a straight swap. My gut says the same thing. If it were, the first thing to go would be the library change, but if you look at the Paganism effect, Monuments give +1 hammer and +2 beakers. ADM would merely make that +2 hammers and +2 beakers until you revolted religious civics.

The building effects are given out, one per trait, and realistically all traits need to give a similar power boost. PRO is always going to have a small boost due to the Granary. The water improvements though need to be decent because not all cities can get them and not all cities could build the same improvement, so +base yield isn't going to cut it IMO. Need to remember that most cities don't build that many improvements, so whilst I think the late game potential of ADM is pretty solid, I am unsure of just how good it is in the mid game so it would probably need testing like that.

All that said, I'm not 100% enamoured with the trait, that's just a placeholder that could work. If there are better trait designs out there for a replacement trait I'd be interested in seeing them. Just shouldn't duplicate another trait and +hammer and +food traits are probably broken in this mod.

OU is Oxford University I assume? That's the first time I've seen that abbreviation

I'm lazy, but yes that is the abbreviation.

Why were the Religious civics partially reinvented, especially with all the benefits without a state religion required? I'm assuming this is part of the way to make all civics viable to go along with the removal of anarchy (which I really like by the way, even though it's going to be a real reinvention of the way we play). I feel like the rebalancing of religion (this, as well making no one start with Mysticism and making later religions more viable with more starting Missionaries) has a lot of interesting effects, especially since I don't use the religious part of the game that much.

Yeah, it's to bring that civic column out more. Along with the capping the shrine outcome, it means that every player can spread religion and not be that concerned about helping another player, but a base 60gpt is not a bad figure to be capped at for a single shrine. PB18 is showing just how insane 100gpt shrines can be.

How does Free Religion have a state religion--are you just making it so? That's probably the weirdest part of new religious civics (along with giving Paganism some benefits).

Yeah, can make it require a state religion, but changing the name isn't a problem either.

Does giving Divine Right four Missionaries conflict with the three Missionary limit (on Standard maps) or is the limit just a building limit?

Shouldn't do, that limit is coded such that you can't build any more, but doesn't stop you being gifted the missionaries IIRC.

You have both Lumbermills listed--I'm assuming you want the growing one, at least for the time being?

What do you mean? Yeah, the growing one should be implemented, but it should also be available at Machinery.

Overall, I like the ideas of this mod and want to play it--so much so that I want to help somehow. I know how to code, just not necessarily the way Civ4 wants me to--I know there's a lot of XML stuff that's relatively easy, but there's the other part that's actual coding (I think it's Python, but maybe Lua--I think Lua is Civ5, while Python is Civ4, is that right?) that I'd need to learn the language for. The RtR mod is up on GitHub too right?

The RtR mod stuff is up on github, but really a lot of the code that needs doing first is in the dll. What I'm majorly concerned about is actually going through all of hte XML and making changes. I don't really have hte time to do all of that myself. In particular, working out the new base costs for the techs from the Renaissance and later is a little bit of a ball ache.

[Krill]

Administrative is IMO very dependent on the civ you play and makes you rely more on infrastructure. The rathaus becomes a -85% maintenance for example, which might be OP. The religious civics are great, there will be choices to make throughout the whole game. Also I love West Point's new effect, the problem with the late wonders is that they're not always very useful given their short lifespan, but this one is gamechanging.

The flat -10% city maintenance isn't in itself going to break anything. It's 1gpt in a city that has maintenance of 10gpt whether you are the HRE or not. Although I suppose AGG/HRE might end up with a city maintenance reduction of something like 105% but I doubt that causes the game to crash or anything. If that trait is broken I suspect it's because it ends up turning into a late game juggernaut, but because it lacks early game effects I'm not 100% convinced that it's a certainty to happen. I feel that there are ways to beat it.

[novice]

The dll changes in RtR are also on github. XML, python and source code for the dll changes are here:
https://github.com/novice-rb/Civ4RealmsBeyondBalanceMod

[Cheater Hater]

The dll changes in RtR are also on github. XML, python and source code for the dll changes are here:
https://github.com/novice-rb/Civ4RealmsBeyondBalanceMod

Oh, right--not only is there XML and Python, the DLL is C++
I mean, I've done some stuff with C++ before (and even C itself), but I'm not anywhere close to comfortable with it. I still can try some stuff--is there any easy guide to what's in the XML/Python/DLL C++ horror?

@Krill: One lumbermill says it's available at Machinery, while the growing lumbermill says it's available at Metal Casting.

Edit: Holy crap is this code a mess, at least the C++ stuff--why are there 20000 line files and 100 line functions?
Granted, some of that is exaggerated (notably by the style of putting opening braces of functions/loops on their own line--that looks as ugly as hell and wastes so much space for relatively little readability gain in my opinion), but it still is a mess. When there's so much stuff I have no clue where to start if I wanted to implement this stuff. What's the most important stuff that's the hardest--the new buildings maybe? Maybe the trade routes and the tech cost stuff--though can't you just borrow a lot of that from ToW? Removing Drama and swapping that all over doesn't seem that hard. Implementing ADM seems hard, but it's not that important--maybe the best route for that is to remove Anarchy and ban Spiritual for a test game first?

[Krill]

Actually I think the new buildings is all XML. Just duplicate the building graphics, so the Harbour/Shipyard/Quay all use the Harbour graphic, and then the Customs house/Breakwater just use the same graphic again. The dry dock can keep what it has. The changes to Anarchy are all global defines. I think ADM itself is the hardest as it would need the creation of new XML tags given to each building in the relevant file.

[Cheater Hater]

Okay, I've started trying stuff--my clone of the repository is here:
https://github.com/VincentBorchardt/Civ4...ameplayMod
I made a new harbor (with +50 health), and it overwrites the normal harbor right now, even though I have both harbors in the file. I can't figure out how to change the name at this point--the only time I think you did that was with the Kanone; where did you put that name change? I'll try some more later to see if I can get further along with stuff

[Krill]

Honestl;y, speak to novice, Seven and T-hawk. The way I'd do things is probably very inefficient.

[Cheater Hater]

I figured out how you added the Kanone--just add it as part of the civilization
As such, the current commit has the super-harbor as a Greek exclusive.

The problem is trying to get multiple harbors to show up, and I don't think I can do it from the XML. There was a "default building" setting in the BuildingClassInfos file I tried commenting out--and broke everything
I think the way it'll have to be is that each of the three buildings will have to be a separate type, but then we'll need to enforce the mutual-exclusivity some other way--any ideas? Where is the "two National Wonders per city" stuff located?

[Qgqqqqq]

Two national wonders per city is in one of the generic files - global defines, .ini or in misc. I actually had a similar building issue a while back in eitb, give me a moment and I'll look both of those up.