[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Whosit]

Well, I had some awful dreams last night. Everyone else had gotten to Nationalism and were drafting units out like crazy, while I was still in the Classical Age with a backwards economy. No way am I going to let that happen! Also, Team Spullla whupped all of our butts in the war. I really hope that doesn't happen.

Anyway, while I'm sure that delving into my subconscious may be fun and games for some of you, there were actually some other things I came here to muse about while the game is still kinda paused. Regarding NAPs. I'm gonna run through a few scenarios.

1) I have a NAP with Team P and an in-game Defense Pact with Team G. Team P (foolishly) declares war on Team G, thus putting me at war with P. Am I correct to believe that I am under no obligation to honor the NAP in such a situation? I imagine that P's declaration on G was about the same as if they'd declared on me (and broken the NAP).

2) I have a NAP with Team P and an out-of-game Defense Pact with Team G. To make things less ambiguous, let us say that both I and Team G have publicly declared this Defense Pact. Supposing that P declares on G, must I still honor the NAP since there is no in-game mechanism that brings me into war with P?

3) I've seen this one discussed elsewhere, but I'm not completely sure how it is regarded: I have a NAP with Team P. Team H comes to me and wants to hire some of my troops. Let's say that I know that they intend to target P. Is it breaking a NAP to supply troops to another team in order to attack the team with which I have a NAP? I think that issue came up in PB1, but I don't recall how it was resolved. Does it break the NAP, or does it just make me a conniving backstabbing jerk?

4) This scenario is like 3, except that I ask H to attack P and supply them with troops. To make this scenario even more devious, I ask them to gift me some of P's towns if they are captured. A proxy war taken to the next level. Is this "illegal?"

5) I have a NAP with Team P. I am allies with Team G, but I have no Defense Pact with them, in-game or otherwise. P attacks G. Later, G comes to me asking for military assistance against P (a declaration or the supply of soldiers or something). Would I be obligated to honor the NAP in this situation ("sorry, love to help, but my hands are tied")? I imagine that the answer is "yes."

I suppose the answers to some of these depends on how the community views NAPs. I've generally gotten the impression that they are seen as iron-clad agreements. I've no problem with that, but as I've said before, I can imagine some situations in which breaking a NAP may be a valid strategy (albeit one that will blacken my reputation in that game, possibly in all others). Though it's not my goal to piss everyone off. I'm still an outsider, after all, and I hope to last long enough to become part of the community.

[Kyan]

1) I have a NAP with Team P and an in-game Defense Pact with Team G. Team P (foolishly) declares war on Team G, thus putting me at war with P. Am I correct to believe that I am under no obligation to honor the NAP in such a situation? I imagine that P's declaration on G was about the same as if they'd declared on me (and broken the NAP).

I think that the NAP would be cancelled under this circumstance. But to avoid such a thing, i would have made anyone who had a NAP with me, aware of any defensive pacts and the potential repurcussions. Also, i'd give team P some time before doing anything. 10 turns or whatever the cancelation period for our NAP was.

2) I have a NAP with Team P and an out-of-game Defense Pact with Team G. To make things less ambiguous, let us say that both I and Team G have publicly declared this Defense Pact. Supposing that P declares on G, must I still honor the NAP since there is no in-game mechanism that brings me into war with P?

Same as before. In my mind, an out-of-game agreement and an in-game one should be treated in the same fashion.

3) I've seen this one discussed elsewhere, but I'm not completely sure how it is regarded: I have a NAP with Team P. Team H comes to me and wants to hire some of my troops. Let's say that I know that they intend to target P. Is it breaking a NAP to supply troops to another team in order to attack the team with which I have a NAP? I think that issue came up in PB1, but I don't recall how it was resolved. Does it break the NAP, or does it just make me a conniving backstabbing jerk?

In my opinion this is breaking the NAP. It's a non-aggresion pact. Gifting troops to someone to attack them qualifies as aggresive. If i have a NAP i, maybe foolishly, trust this to be totally binding from both ends.

4) This scenario is like 3, except that I ask H to attack P and supply them with troops. To make this scenario even more devious, I ask them to gift me some of P's towns if they are captured. A proxy war taken to the next level. Is this "illegal?"

I can't fore-see how this can possibly be seen as anything other than a breach of the NAP. The victim will feel the same, so whats the point in having the NAP just to do this. If you're going to break it, which i wouldn't reccomend, do it properly and up-front. I would find it hard to trust someone who broke a NAP, but if someone broke it in *this* manner, i'd view that as even more devious.

5) I have a NAP with Team P. I am allies with Team G, but I have no Defense Pact with them, in-game or otherwise. P attacks G. Later, G comes to me asking for military assistance against P (a declaration or the supply of soldiers or something). Would I be obligated to honor the NAP in this situation ("sorry, love to help, but my hands are tied")? I imagine that the answer is "yes."

Yes.

[novice]

No out of game agreements are binding (except the agreed upon rules for the game, with regards to double moves and so on). You may break them at your own peril, the risk is to your reputation.

With regards to 2), Athlete did this in PBEM1. He had a secret NAP with Dreylin and a secret (but inferred) defense pact with MH. Dreylin declared on MH and after some umming and aahhing Athlete broke the NAP with Dreylin and declared on him.

The aftermath was that MH made peace with Dreylin (I'm not sure if this was a breach of the defense pact) and Dreylin's armies wiped out Athlete. Lesson learned.

What Athlete did wrong in my opinion was to keep the NAP with Dreylin secret. This should have been disclosed to MH as part of the Defense Pact, with provisions on how to handle that. Athlete put himself in a position where he had to break one of his agreements.

With regards to 3) and 4), in RBPB1 the players typically had explicit provisions in their NAPs about no rights of passage for hostile troops and no gifting of units to hostile nations. I would advise on this when signing NAPs. You may also want to cover espionage, one of Athlete's excuses in PBEM1 was that Dreylin had spybombed Athlete earlier, and thus the NAP had already been broken. Noone really bought this, though.

[Whosit]

With regards to 3) and 4), in RBPB1 the players typically had explicit provisions in their NAPs about no rights of passage for hostile troops and no gifting of units to hostile nations. I would advise on this when signing NAPs. You may also want to cover espionage, one of Athlete's excuses in PBEM1 was that Dreylin had spybombed Athlete earlier, and thus the NAP had already been broken. Noone really bought this, though.

Yeah, that hasn't be explicitly mentioned in anything I've signed so far, but I imagine that it would be strongly frowned upon at the very least. Unfortunately (from my perspective), Spy units are banned in this game. I suppose people were worried about them being abused somehow, but I would have liked to at least passively strolled through other people's lands . . . .

I've been putting it off, but I should probably actually check with Kalin/Athlete and Jowy about when we'll publicize our little alliance. I'm still betting that we're going to wait until after the war with India.

Well, thanks for answering my questions. About what I expected.

[novice]

Unfortunately (from my perspective), Spy units are banned in this game. I suppose people were worried about them being abused somehow, but I would have liked to at least passively strolled through other people's lands . . . .

A great spy can do that. They're not banned, are they? Although if I got a great spy in this game I would probably spybomb someone for the passive benefits.

[Cyneheard]

The consensus for RBPB3, which also voted "no spies", was that great spies had to be settled for Espionage or used for a GA.

[Krill]

Could you do me a favour and make sure of that for RBPB3?

[Cyneheard]

Well the game only forces 1 Great Spy right, from...Fascism tech? If you end up with a Great Spy though it can still be settled for beakers and EP useful for passive espionage.

No one objected, and we moved on to the next set of polls.

[Whosit]

The Galactic Empire: Overview





The Empire has grown during the last 50 turns, and has incorporated some of the territories of its neighbor, Korea. Cities are developing nicely post-war, although happiness is still a limiting factor pre-Hereditary Rule.

Score Graph:



Demographics Screen:



The GDP of the Empire continues to struggle, but we have achieved a sustainable rate high enough that we may not be last place, for now. We are still #1 in production, despite cutbacks in favor of commerce. The Empire continues to trail India in growth, and because of our peaceful nature, have fallen to second place in Power.

Military Screen:



The Empire's might.

Goals for the next 25 turns:

The Galactic Empire will soon enter into war with the Killer Angels. Eight Praetorians are being committed to the battle, which represents the bulk of the Imperial Army. Hopefully most will survive their tour, but that is far from certain.

Our immediate goals are to continue the development of our economy, and hopefully found more cities, including one on Centralia. We are researching Aesthetics in the hope of landing the Parthenon, which may help make up for our otherwise poor economic traits.

The ultimate goal of the Empire, of course, is nothing less than world domination . . . .

[Whosit]

Hi again! It's been quiet. I was shocked to realize that I haven't posted for a couple of days! Well, here's the most recent e-mail from Nakor:

Dear Whosit,

Indeed it is difficult, but it's quite a bit of fun as well! I also play Diplomacy by e-mail, and these intruiges are great fun.
Don't know if this will work out in the long run, though.

I'm indeed going to tell them that you are stalling and I'm even going to tell them (in a few days) that you forbid us to take their side in the war. I'll elaborate a bit and tell them that you will declare on us if we help them. So if they might mail you, you know what my diplomatic plan is.

Got a message from Plako asking me about my relation with the Inca's (which is non-existent) cause they are looking for an ally against you.

Dantski and Kalin declared as well, so I wonder what India will do. Antietam has got city walls, so that's a bit of a problem...

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE

I can't help but feel that I'm somehow being made into the bad guy here. Nakor mentioned trying to come up with a reason for war with India in the latest Coalition letter, so I wonder if he's trying to put up a front of being "forced" into the war? Perhaps he wants to try and maintain cordial relations with India after the war? I do not know. It's probably not important for now.

Of course, I always love to get more info on plako's attempts at subterfuge. He would probably seethe if he knew that many of his overtures were reaching me. Fortunately, he still does not have direct contact with the Inca, so that should help slow down any mischief. I'll mention that to Nakor in case he doesn't know, though I imagine that he realizes it. Daniel probably would be plako's best ally right now, so I should try to convince Daniel that challenging me would be a bad idea. Speaking of, I better contact him since he hasn't gotten back to me yet . . . .

Centralia update:



This is a first: Smart Barbarians. The Warriors on this island keep fleeing my Axeman. I need 2 more XP so I can get Woodsman II! C'mon, stop running away!

Also, a before and after of my expenses when my fleet left my borders:



Not quite as bad as I feared. I am break-even at 20% science with Aesthetics due in 15 turns. It's faster this way, since it would take 20 turns at bipolar research. Or whatever the term is. Hopefully will speed up as more Libraries come online. I'm thinking about whipping the one in Ryloth, but I haven't decided for sure since the town would be stuck at size 4 for . . . 6 turns after the whip, then size 5 for 10 turns.

I'm praying each turn that plako doesn't decide to return the worker-steal favor. I have 3 Workers in range of his Axemen . . . . Well, he ended turn already, and 2 will move away next turn. I'm using one Worker to chop down the forest where I want to plant a filler city. 16 hammers for Carida. Might as well, right?

Hopefully my updates will increase in frequency as the turns progress. Hope this satisfies your need for all news Imperial!