Super Massive Enhanced Gameplay Mod 1.0.1.3 - Beta

[GermanJoey]

Originally the religious civics were supposed to have 2 effects, one without a religion present and then a second effect if state religion was present.

Turns out that needs more coding than it's worth. So no, not really. It still gives culture, happiness and happiness again with a temple plus then their's the shrine which at present is not capped.

That's too bad... right now there isn't really a motivation for anyone to spread religion, other than the odd missionary to pop borders in a little islands or whatever, and thus there isn't really a motivation for a shrine (gold from random spreads by themselves isn't worth burning a GP on a shrine), and thus Great Prophets seem kinda pointless and trolly, except for GAs that the theoretical Phi spammer...

The civ/trait stuff? or the 1.0.0.8 change log?

both

[Krill]

1.0.0.7

I can't build piers in my offshore cities.

Fixed. iMinSizeArea now set to 1. This is the tag that gives the minimum water body size that allows a lighthouse to be built, but as a pier has an iWater tag set to 0 hence can be built in any city not just one that is coast adjacent, I think that iMin tag then checks the land area the city is on.

[Krill]

Originally the religious civics were supposed to have 2 effects, one without a religion present and then a second effect if state religion was present.

Turns out that needs more coding than it's worth. So no, not really. It still gives culture, happiness and happiness again with a temple plus then their's the shrine which at present is not capped.

That's too bad... right now there isn't really a motivation for anyone to spread religion, other than the odd missionary to pop borders in a little islands or whatever, and thus there isn't really a motivation for a shrine (gold from random spreads by themselves isn't worth burning a GP on a shrine), and thus Great Prophets seem kinda pointless and trolly, except for GAs that the theoretical Phi spammer...

What if a religion in a city gave more than just culture? For instance, it's trivial for a religion in a city to give +1 gold or beaker which is a reasonable bonus IMO.

[Cheater Hater]

Can't you tie some of the civic effects to the State Religion? The percentage-based boosts seem relatively easy to code (since percentage-based boosts already exist, even if not for what we want exactly), and you could give OR a percentage boost back.

[Krill]

I could do that, but it's not something that I want to do: In large games there is a real possibility that religions are never an option for a player because of the randomness of spreads etc. I want the civic effects kept separate from the presence of religion, which is why I've stripped out the religious buildings and remade them as agnostic buildings that have bonuses based on civics and if religion is present. The cost isn't as much on researching religion now (i.e. the race to found) it's on the ability to produce the buildings.

For example, a temple gives +1 happiness if state religion is in the city.

[spacetyrantxenu]

I'd agree that as of now there's something missing with religion. There isn't a huge motivation to spread it around your empire, which there has always been. Decoupling the civics effects from the inherent randomness of whether you're able to eventually unlock access to a religion (yours or someone else's doesn't really matter) is a step forward for balance, yet the feeling that something needs to replace that motivation to spread the religion remains. I don't know what game element should be incorporated here though. It can't be too powerful or that moves the needle back toward the side of religion being too dependent upon the RNG. Maybe it could be some kind of new bonus, or small extra increase in the effects of the "agnostic" religious boosts. Big enough to make it worth spreading a religion (and thereby reward players who risk early research on religion) but not game breaking like the problems you've been designing the religious system away from.

[DaveV]

An outsider's point of view: I like the way the Fall from Heaven mod handles religion: the first player to research a religion-unlocking tech gets the holy city plus a missionary of that religion; all subsequent players only get the missionary. This lets you spread the religion to a city of your choice, even if you don't get there first.

[Krill]

I'd agree that as of now there's something missing with religion. There isn't a huge motivation to spread it around your empire, which there has always been. Decoupling the civics effects from the inherent randomness of whether you're able to eventually unlock access to a religion (yours or someone else's doesn't really matter) is a step forward for balance, yet the feeling that something needs to replace that motivation to spread the religion remains. I don't know what game element should be incorporated here though. It can't be too powerful or that moves the needle back toward the side of religion being too dependent upon the RNG. Maybe it could be some kind of new bonus, or small extra increase in the effects of the "agnostic" religious boosts. Big enough to make it worth spreading a religion (and thereby reward players who risk early research on religion) but not game breaking like the problems you've been designing the religious system away from.

The motivation will always be based on new tactical options and economic out put right? With caste not giving artist slots methods of popping borders are harder to come by so the religious effect does have decent amount of usefulness.

On top of that I don't think that much more than the happiness and something from the monastery should be necessary.

[Thoth]

WW got broken somehow. The loss of 1 Knight + about 10 combat victories in my own territory should not be causing WW let alone enough to cause +2 unhappy in a size 20 city. I haven't fought a single battle outside of my own territory all game (barb combat excepted).

[Thoth]

An outsider's point of view: I like the way the Fall from Heaven mod handles religion: the first player to research a religion-unlocking tech gets the holy city plus a missionary of that religion; all subsequent players only get the missionary. This lets you spread the religion to a city of your choice, even if you don't get there first.

This.


Also:

How do the State Religion building booster wonders (Sistine, UofS ect) interact with SMEG mod's "religious" buildings?


Suggestion: Go with FFH style "everyone gets a missionary with the appropriate tech" + temples/monasteries are religion specific. Temples provide 1 Priest slot + 1 Happy. Temples of the state religion provide the religious civic bonuses. Monastaries provide +10% beakers, +2 Culture. Monastaries of the state religion provide the religious civic bonuses.

First to the religion gets a potential shrine + proximity to Holy City spreads but anyone can get access to religion.