[PB25-SPOILERS] The Lunacy of the Reign of HAK Continues

[HitAnyKey]

Soooo.....Grimace had a 22 point score increase this turn 40. What would cause that? Any idea? By my review of tracking the scores he got his 4th tech on T36 and his City2 grew to Pop2 on turn 112. His City1 grew to Pop5 on T91. I just have no idea what could generate that many points in a single turn.
Donovan also had a big jump of 10 points this turn...which I suppose could be both his C1 & C2 growing. Or a combination of a Tech5 and a growth of a city.
And GermanJoey settled his 3rd city, being the first to do so. We get ours in 2 turns.
Retap only just got his 2nd city at the start of this turn as well.

[HitAnyKey]

And just like that this turn retep gets out his 3rd city. He must have had delays trying to get his first settler into position, such that he was able to build his second settler while the first was having to futz around. No other way he could settle a city last turn, and then settle another city this turn.
As soon as Gavagai plays his turn, I'll be able to log in and settle our 3rd city.

[MindyMcCready]

Soooo.....Grimace had a 22 point score increase this turn 40. What would cause that? Any idea? By my review of tracking the scores he got his 4th tech on T36 and his City2 grew to Pop2 on turn 112. His City1 grew to Pop5 on T91. I just have no idea what could generate that many points in a single turn.
Donovan also had a big jump of 10 points this turn...which I suppose could be both his C1 & C2 growing. Or a combination of a Tech5 and a growth of a city.
And GermanJoey settled his 3rd city, being the first to do so. We get ours in 2 turns.
Retap only just got his 2nd city at the start of this turn as well.

Grimace's 22 score point? Can't say that I know what that means, however I understand that land score accumulates with a lag. His religion == 3rd ring borders may be the answer.

A SHOUT-OUT to Master Krill:
Speaking of Grimace,....he's doing quite well, he's got his religion + agriculture with ample grain resources. That he doesn't have a pair of axes at his doorstep is primarily a function of the Archery tech price but also includes other things such as our approach path (around the mountains and onto a visible hill), his 3rd ring borders as a result of his successul landing of Buddism, and the fact that his 2nd city has gems which shaves 1T off of the Archery time.

IMO Grimace took a very risky path given the tightness of the map. HAK in contrast, took a much more defensive, rational, balanced approch with a militaristic option. We had an Expansive start and, due in part to choosing Mining first had auto-hooked copper plus a huge information advantage in knowing his capital location and that the southern route existed.

Adding it all together, this should have been the perfect storm for Grimace and he should probably be battered and bloodied given his set of choices and our own. Waiting until 4th tech to get BW when we had met 3 other civs by T7,...not being forced to divert to archery or off the economic path,...this seems wrong. But he's untouchable since Archery's a 3T tech for him.

As I see it the Axe rush, while being considered a questionable idea, is now a virtual non-starter. Going econ for the first 4 techs is probably a dominant strategy now. So I'm asking if this was the intent behind the Archery tech price change?


Over to grand strategy,...

It seems like we have a very decent chunk of land with a few key choke points. We have a very good choke point in our 2nd city to keep us out of the 3-way Battle Land to our NE. We have a Western choke-point 5W of C3 although we'll need a very strong catapult garrison there to prevent a bypass of that city. That city is risky but a priority since it would allow us the future option of attacking either way around that lake to it's south as well as cutting Borsche off from the land/island to our NW.

I think that the most valuable piece of information is what happens south of that mountain range East of Borsche. We may lose the scout but a move SSW onto that hill may provide the best information.

Still the most reasonable expansion plan remains our intended C4 location with option of nabbing whatever marble city Grimace tries to plant once it hits size2. If we can achieve that objective that will open up all of that southern land as well as that island. We seem to be in a favourable position geographically. Grimace would have 3 possible reactions:
1. Vendetta
2. Rational War
3. Acceptance

Given his strong score + pressure in the 3-way Battle Land + possible pressure to his East,....these make me hopeful that we could make such a move and avoid a full blood bath. The more that his farmer's gambit is paying off, the less likely he'll go Vendetta. We'll need a strong garrison to prevent rational war of course.

[HitAnyKey]

Grimace's 22 score point? Can't say that I know what that means, however I understand that land score accumulates with a lag. His religion == 3rd ring borders may be the answer.

Ah yes, sill me. Forgot about that part. I didn't think of it when the rest of the world didn't get the land score increases, forgetting that he had that 3rd ring land before everyone else. So now it all makes sense. Whew!

[HitAnyKey]

I think that the most valuable piece of information is what happens south of that mountain range East of Borsche. We may lose the scout but a move SSW onto that hill may provide the best information.

Still the most reasonable expansion plan remains our intended C4 location with option of nabbing whatever marble city Grimace tries to plant once it hits size2. If we can achieve that objective that will open up all of that southern land as well as that island. We seem to be in a favourable position geographically. Grimace would have 3 possible reactions:
1. Vendetta
2. Rational War
3. Acceptance

Given his strong score + pressure in the 3-way Battle Land + possible pressure to his East,....these make me hopeful that we could make such a move and avoid a full blood bath. The more that his farmer's gambit is paying off, the less likely he'll go Vendetta. We'll need a strong garrison to prevent rational war of course.

I already moved the scout that direction and he's already uncovered the entire southern area down to the water (which is the bottom of the map), and he moved back eastward to uncover the land south of that mountain range between us. This coming turn my move will uncover another big chunk, and that's when I'll post the next screenshot of the full area.

I'd also been keeping that same thought of the Marble area in mind, that of getting our city over there garrisoned enough with enough troops to take whatever city he plants down there...and keep it. He is Industrious, so he's likely going to really want that Marble for added boost to making wonders. So even if we are able to take it, I fully anticipate him wanting to find a way to mount an assault to take it back.

[HitAnyKey]

Ok, here's our update. The great explored land to the southwest....


Sadly, we may lose our scout next turn. I did just promote him with he Hills defense bonus. So hopefully that is enough to help him survive the Lion attack.



And then we have the overview of our territory, extending with the view of the NW including what we can see of the island.



And for the moment, #1 in MFG! But that's also because we are starving Sleepy for 2 turns while finishing the worker.

[Krill]

Can you rephrase that question in a manner that doesn't include a billion spoilers?

[HitAnyKey]

Nothing big to report this turn, other than that the scout survived...though just barely. He'll be taking the next 8 turns to heal.
Finished Agri, so starting the Rice farm now. Can't wait for the Gold mine to finish in a couple turns.
Grimace also finished a Tech...and with him knowing where his Copper is, I'm betting he went for Wheel. It's what I'm betting pretty much everyone would have done after BW.

Also Commodore also settled his 3rd city last turn. So that's GJ, retap, Commodore, & us all with 3rd city right now.

[MindyMcCready]

Can you rephrase that question in a manner that doesn't include a billion spoilers?

:LOL: How about: do you feel that Archery is too cheap right now?

[MindyMcCready]

Ok, here's our update. The great explored land to the southwest....

Some Points
-Happy on Worker!! Doh! This city desperately neeeds to grow onto the gold.
-->I'd suggest either a wb for future use 2N1W. The WB will also be excellent for scouting out that NW island.
-If scout survives maybe we can bring him back up for that purpose since we're not getting by Borshce's culture without a DOW. We could think about that but he'll probably get killed for no good purposes
-Another thing to answer is whether that is Borshce's capital or not?
Presuming that is his capital (does he have 2nd or 3rd city out yet?) he doesn't have any shared food,,...!!!
WAIT A SECOND!
That mountain + the fogged water tile below it + that lake means that he's cut off from that area!!! OMG!!! That 5W of Happy is our most important city choke location! WOW! That effectively gets us all of the land that we can see.
I had assumed that we would never be able to land a city to the SW of C3,...but now it looks like ours.

But wait again! Stone in the bottom corner,....just a few tiles away from what's probably Borshce's capital. Look familar?

Borsche is Shaka so he's expansive,...guy must have his 2nd city by now right? He's also not creative, so that's definately his cap.