Thinking inside the box

[Huinesoron]

(It says 'Civ General Discussion', right? Not just 'things relating to actual games, current or planned'?)

So: a scenario, under Civ 4. Your civilisation is trapped in a box - completely walled in by a single-thick line of peaks. There is no way around it (no hidden passageways or water routes or the like). The Box holds a decent chunk of land, with resources and all, just... no exits. The AIs outside are as normal - just with your box in the middle of them.

My question is, what are your options? Obviously Spaceship, Time, and Cultural victories are still on the table (and probably easier, since you don't need a military). But what else? My thoughts:

-Exploration is probably limited to what your borders expose outside, at least until you can trade for maps. Is it possible to pop a Scout from a hut? If so, and if you pop the hut with your borders, that might get you a unit outside.
--Do borders operate as normal across peaks? How about religious auto-spreading?
-Depending on the shape of the Box, you might be able to culturally steal a city outside. For that matter, if the Box is U-shaped and a barb city spawns in the centre, an AI might take it and gift it to you! (Hey, it happened to me in Adventure 61 just now!)
-Assuming borders do go as normal over peaks, you should be able to meet the AIs, which means Diplo victory is on the table, too.

But what about military? Off the top of my head, you'd be entirely trapped until, uh, Flight? The various planes and missiles can cross the Box, but the only ground unit... do paratroopers still operate that way? I know they did in III, but I don't think I've used them in IV.

Is there any way to convince the AI to gift you a unit? How much damage do they have to take to gift you a city - could you bully them into it just with bombers? Is there anything at all useful in the espionage packet?

My thought is that, unless you get lucky with city placements, war-based options are off the table until you hit the very end of the tech tree. But... this is Realms Beyond! I'm sure you can tell me why I'm wrong.

[T-hawk]

Paratroopers can drop past peaks. Borders do operate as normal over peaks. A culture flip would be possible. Also the Apostolic Palace can assign a city, although that and a flip and an AI gift/liberation all have the same condition (majority culture of the recipient) so have the same dependency on AI city placement.

If an AI gets culture inside the box, you could sign Open Borders, move a settler there, then cancel OB, which could bump the settler outside. You could make this happen by gifting a city inside the box to an AI. This is an option that wouldn't depend on luck with an AI city placement, although does depend on the shape of the box.

Popping a scout outside can't happen, a popped unit appears on the same spot as the hut. I doubt you could deal enough military damage to get a ceded city, though it's possible in theory. I don't think you can get an AI to gift a military unit outside. I can't think of anything in espionage, you can't get a spy outside the box.

[Bobchillingworth]

Couldn't you airlift units into a friendly AI city?


If Permanent Alliances were enabled you could ally an AI and then request their non-core cities.

[Krill]

If you managed to capture a city outside the box with paratroopers, you could then airlift in a number of units per turn only limited by the number of cities that had airfields. Therefore there is no victory condition that is impossible to achieve. This would, IMO, make a vaguely interesting adventure for some people.

I think the best method of playing it out is already known though. Barb bust with warriors and cottage every tile (using farms as necessary to grow the population) and win that tech victory. You have a sandbox game that doesn't have any real speed bumps, even on a high difficulty you should still have contact with other civs.

[DTG]

A culture victory with massed Spies and city gifting would be the quickest way to win, but not all that interesting to play out.

[Huinesoron]

You have a sandbox game that doesn't have any real speed bumps, even on a high difficulty you should still have contact with other civs.

Well, since you mentioned the magic 'Adventure' word...

My thought for making it more difficult than a literal sandbox is quite a simple one: open the Box. Specifically, add a handful of hills to the wall - which the player is not allowed to cross. The AI can come in, meaning you have to actually defend yourself - but you can't go outside.

That also opens up methods of 'softening' the variant, by specifying some units you can send out. Obviously not Settlers! I was wondering about 'siege only', as an analogue to the planes of the Modern Age; the main problem with that is that, um, there's probably no point, because the AI is unlikely to care if you just hurt (but don't kill) its units. I suppose you could send stacks of siege out for the purpose of attracting the AI to come attack them...

[Bobchillingworth]

Opening the box though would allow for players to potentially kill vast number of AI units at the choke points, which will make demanding cities for peace much easier.

[WilliamLP]

If an AI gets culture inside the box, you could sign Open Borders, move a settler there, then cancel OB, which could bump the settler outside. You could make this happen by gifting a city inside the box to an AI. This is an option that wouldn't depend on luck with an AI city placement, although does depend on the shape of the box.

That would have to be some weird concave box, right? Like a U-shape where you are teleported from one arm of the U and your closest city is on the other arm of the U, and so you could get teleported inside the U curve and outside the "box"?

[RefSteel]

That would have to be some weird concave box, right? Like a U-shape where you are teleported from one arm of the U and your closest city is on the other arm of the U, and so you could get teleported inside the U curve and outside the "box"?

Nope: Teleportation is weird. You can do it as long as you place your units and cities the right way, even in a square "box" - for instance, plant a city 1NE of the box's SW corner, and gift it to an AI. Move units to the far SW corner with Open Borders, and then close borders once the gift city controls its second ring. As long as your next-nearest city is on one of the two southernmost rows (or westernmost columns) of the box and there are neutral tiles to land on (in the right spots) outside the mountains, your units will be teleported to freedom!

For instance:

Code:

X
X
X---
X----
X-G--
Xu---  C
XXXXXXXXXXXXX...
  *
X's are mountains, G is the gifted city, --s are the non-mountain portion of its BFC, C is another of your cities, u is your unit, and * is its destination!

[Old Harry]

Popping a scout outside can't happen, a popped unit appears on the same spot as the hut.

If your culture pops a hut outside the box I think it could happen... couldn't it?