[PB25 Spoiler] General Flauros leads the Creole Calabim

[wetbandit]

Yeah, BGN, you need to dump the boss routine per your earlier comments.

Sorry, GJ, that's awful, hope you get back on your feet soon.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Did you guys decide on a concession plan? Bringing the issue up publicly in the tech thread is not the best for the health of the game. We have done games lately (PB23 comes to mind) where players post in their thread when they are willing to concede and when enough/all players have done so the game is called. You've already brought it up and others have not jumped at the chance to concede so there is little to be gained by continuing the conversation publicly. Let it go for now and see how things develop over the next few turns. We'll let you know if/when other players are ready to concede.

[GermanJoey]

Ok, fine. I won't mention it in the tech thread again if lurkers are actually paying attention AND Donovan and HAK are actually playing to win. (although I don't believe it from either) I brought it up myself here because I had a horrible experience with this exact same scenario in PBEM63, as the absolutely-no-fucking-chance second place player, where a.) lurkers ignored my request about concession for over a week (probably nobody was even reading that one based on my thread views) and b.) the game dragged on and on despite the outcome being 290% certain just because some players here can't fucking let go of the games they play, as if they're letting go of their own lives if a game is finished. I think that's really horrible sportsmanship and disrespectful to your fellow players, for what its worth. (although, ironically, I am aware that some of you out there will think that me bringing up the concession myself, or complaining about the map as much as I have, is bad sportsmanship and disrespectful - and to you people, to hell with you! Try seriously playing out a position like every day mine for 5 months and see how much your own endurance and patience can hold out!)

It is really not fun being comp-stomped especially when you are supposedly the civ with the next-best chance to win. I hate how corpses like this game keep drumming on while awesome close games like PB13 and PB22 die a slow, meaningless death. It is very, very frustrating! Like, who has a chance here? Who can build up high enough to even have a chance to challenge the Inca now that I'm dying? India? They whiffed on Elkad with nothing, are an era behind in tech and a dozen cities behind in land, and yet he thinks he has a 1.9% (????) chance to defeat an opponent 10X more powerful. He is out of his league. HRE? They'll soon be behind a half-dozen cities, are behind a whole era in tech, and most importantly, are run by a pair of fucking insane people. Harping on the tech point a bit more... HAK's economy is decent but Commodore's tech lead is truly gigantic. I mean, compare me with them. I'm close in total beakers researched, but a lot of those beakers are in Aesthetics/Literature/Music. The only real tech advantage I have now is CS, while Commodore is up Guilds AND Engineering on me. Nobody else is even CLOSE to Guilds. The Org civs just got CoL recently, FFS!

I'm not the only one who wants this game over, for what its worth; retep has said he does, I know Borsche does, and I'm sure Gavagai does too, based on his comment in the tech thread. (I mean, he even actually told a JOKE!). Grimace and Elkad are basically dead and Elkad is apparently abusing psychedelic drugs if he actually though I was calling for my OWN victory in the tech thread.

[The Black Sword]

Hey GJ,

4/9 players want the game to continue, 2/9 appear to be indifferent and 3/9 want the game to end. Players in the indifferent/game end category are more likely to be on their way out too.

I don't think that's a ratio that warrants the game ending, even if there was no doubt about the winner. And while I do see Commotay winning this, I wouldn't put the probability above 99% yet. Lurkers are paying attention to the game and we'd let you know if others want to concede.

In general, I think games should end when people stop having fun, not when we have a winner. (I know you sort of already had this conversation with Seven already). A clear winner often makes a lot of your decisions feel meaningless though, which tends to lead to less fun. When this 'not fun' point occurs after we have a winner seems to vary by person though and you certainly seem to lean toward one extreme. Perhaps its just something to bring up in the settings before the game to make sure you're playing with like-minded people. Regarding this game, I think your 'not fun' point has come even earlier than usual because of other issues to do with the game and it should be understandable why someone like eg. HAK would want to continue.

I think you should advertise for a sub(in the general forum, not your thread) since you're really not enjoying the game. I'll do it if no-one else volunteers but

1. I need to be ok'd by the others since I'm totally spoiled - I'll stop lurking the others for the moment just in case.
2. I'll only be putting bare minimum effort in, at least until PB18 finishes.

And I think a lot of tech thread responses were jokes trying to politely disagree with you.

[Krill]

I can sub; I looked at the map in early design process but it went through numerous revisions since then, and whilst I am spoiled I don't actually know anything about this game.

[Tsargon]

I'm very sorry it's come to this Joey, for what it's worth your naming gimmick was a thousand times better than anyone else's.

[GermanJoey]

TBS, I think you're right that it's probably something that needs to be discussed during game setup. The next time I start a pitboss (which will be awhile, I seriously need a break) it will be something I'll bring up. I had a very long conversation with Seven about this, I think mostly over PM unfortunately. He had, for the most part, the same opinion as you - "the game should continue as long as players are having fun." My opinion was and is "its OK if some players aren't having fun if a winner isn't clear, as we all signed up to play and we can't play if we all aren't playing, but the game should end as soon as winner is decided." To me, if I'm just interested in pressing end turn just for the fun of it, there's always the single player option that doesn't waste anyone else's time. And, lets be clear, if you're actually trying then these games take a lot of time - you should understand that as much as anyone!

Krill, I really appreciate you offering. I genuinely do hate to bail on a game but I think I need to accept, thank you. I'm going to try to stabilize the situation over the next 2-3 turns but then I'll hand it over. I'll writeup an overview at that time, and please let me know if there's anything specific you want to know. The password is "tilty" () and feel free to login to look around before then.

Tsargon, THANK YOU, too bad you're one of the only ones to even get what it was.

[GermanJoey]

lmfao at greedy Commodore, his natural map advantages were not enough and now he wants another PBEM64 where his game-long rival gets replaced with a green that's never played a pitboss before. what a fucking guy.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

lmfao at greedy Commodore, his natural map advantages were not enough and now he wants another PBEM64 where his game-long rival gets replaced with a green that's never played a pitboss before. what a fucking guy.

Mack (reddog), Seven, or Borsche?

I think this may be a little unfair to Commodore. He may be annoyingly aggressive to play against at times but I don't think he'd cheese things up to get an advantage to win in this game. He paired with dtay and got PRO/Inca in the snake pick. I think he'd be happy with the good fortune he's already received and wouldn't game the replacement process for advantage.

Other than this, I sympathize with your position right now. I also got a chuckle out of your password. I may have given myself a similar reminder for PB18 to not take things super seriously, for all that good that has done me.

[GermanJoey]

I'm a lot less trustful of Commodore than you I guess. But, I (and retep ) was/were specifically referring to PBEM64 where LogicalTautology, who, by his own admission, is a very green player, subbed in for veteran frontrunner Pindicator, thus completely changing Commodore's neighbor situation. That kind of massive shift in the game is what I'd like to avoid. DonovanZoi subbing for Mackoti in PB22 is also fresh in my mind...

At any rate, if either Mackoti or Seven are interested, they sure haven't mentioned it to me. I doubt Commodore has talked to them either, as AFAIK neither of them has expressed any interest in joining a game of any sort for awhile now... in fact, for Mack's last game, *I* actually subbed in for *him* because he was busy with his new baby. But, if either of them are interested than I'd be happy to hand it over.

There's no way Borsche would want to play in this game anymore (especially for me, as I've been taunting him about his imminent death all week ), as he seems even more sour about it than I've been, if you can believe that. And besides, he just finished a grueling defense against Gavagai, why would he want to go through that same thing again except this time against an even stronger opponent? And how is it fair to Gavagai, who just defeated his foe, only for him to rise from the dead with a new civ that still borders him? And how would Borsche be any less spoiled than Krill? It doesn't make any sense to me.