[PB25 Spoiler] General Flauros leads the Creole Calabim

[BRickAstley]

If you don't think its over the line, then why wag your finger? I had been thinking to put the HE there for months. It has nothing to do with any spoiler information.

but if you keep talking strategy, you'll cross the line sooner or later.

[Mardoc]

If you don't think its over the line, then why wag your finger?

Because dancing near the line is also a problem. You could mis-step. Or create a precedent that causes someone else to, later.

I value RB, and the culture of trust, and trust is much easier to destroy than to create. You have to not only be fair, but be obviously, inarguably fair.

I had been thinking to put the HE there for months. It has nothing to do with any spoiler information.

True. But if you wanted to remain involved, you shouldn't have read the other threads. It's a simple, bright-line rule that works. Better that 100 innocent lurkers be gagged than one player stop reporting due to paranoia. Especially when it's such a specific, limited-context gag. You can say whatever you want in the lurker thread, after all.

[GermanJoey]

I know where the line is and this isn't dancing near the line. This is you wagging your finger at me here because its easier than wagging your finger at me elsewhere. The idea that I could even "give advice" to Krill here is laughable; if I thought I had good ideas on how to get out of this situation then I wouldn't have abandoned the civ. I don't want to remain involved - fuck no do I want to have anything to do with playing this game - I wanted to know why he thought my previous plan was bad. Lurkers here very rarely discuss the tradeoffs in the choices made by veteran players (rather just post about drama ) and so I was looking for feedback about a choice I would have made.

[Mardoc]

This is you wagging your finger at me here because its easier than wagging your finger at me elsewhere.

Believe it or not, the world isn't out to get you. I don't want to wag my finger or any other portion of my anatomy at you.

The idea that I could even "give advice" to Krill here is laughable; if I thought I had good ideas on how to get out of this situation then I wouldn't have abandoned the civ.

And yet you may have picked up something in reading the other threads.

I don't want to remain involved - fuck no do I want to have anything to do with playing this game

Then why the heck are you arguing with me about this? I feel like I've walked into that Monty Python sketch.

I wanted to know why he thought my previous plan was bad.

Fine, whatever. It's not what I heard, but it could be what you meant.

[Krill]

Commodore offered peace back along with the city, so I accepted: his units got teleported to Nijmen or whatever it's called. If he gifts those units to Elkad I'm sure everyone knows how I'm going to react. I've whipped an archer in Leiden and run wealth in almost all the cities that aren't build triremes, to get Engineering eot and to be able to upgrade the archer to a longbow next turn. That will allow me to dump a stack of units next to Nijmwhaterver next turn and hold Leiden. If Elkad moves the gifted pike in there to attack the city Commodore returned, then I can road a hill that I've dumped 2 workers on and kill the pike, secure the city and still threaten Nijwhatever. I believe the longbow will then hold Leiden for reinforcements to arrive and it's just a matter of securing hte island and murdering those fucking triremes.

[Krill]

Small update:




Elkad abandoned Nijmegan, but I had an archer on a 3 move galley that could capture the city. Promptly took it and slaughtered the pike with a C2/Shock HA because it was injured (40% win, 10% retreat), and then beat the Xbow with a C1/Shock HA (68% odds).

Then attacked his trireme at the capital with a base trireme, lost down to 0.6 strength. Decent enough.
Lost the following 67% battle, C2 Trireme against base Trireme, at 1.6 strength. Oh well, what goes around comes around. Not complaining with hte luck that had already occurred.

Cleaned up with final trireme winning the 80% battle, and beat final trireme with a galley.




Final position. Retreated out of Leiden because Elkad moved his units to retake hte city. No point losing them, when I can attack again in 2 turns and retake the city with a real stack. Optics for Caravels to ensure naval dominance and then push into his land and raze cities.

Looking over the map though, I don't see why this game is carrying on. Commodore does have this in the bag because, unlike in PB18 where Aztecs could sit on their island and devote only some of their resources to annoying dtay whilst he fought multiple opponents, Commodore isn't distracted.

So I vote concede.

[GermanJoey]

See, I'm not crazy after all! (or, at least, I probably actually am, in general, but I was seeing this game clearly at least )

Still, give 'em hell while you can!

[Krill]

Lel, Elkad focused on the island too much. Just razed Utrect for zero losses:

HA; C2 v Archer; CG1: 32% win, 13% withdraw: Withdraw
HA; C2/Shock v Archer; C1: 35% win, 17% withdraw: Win
Impi; C1/CR1 v Archer (1.3); CG1: 85% win: Win





But this is what he dumped into Leiden:





This is going to be annoying to kill. The issues are that I'm just going to need units in numbers, and decent units at that. I'd reckon at least 4 trebuchet would actually be the ideal units to use he because I need to build another bunch of cats anyway, and the 30 hammer premium to also wreck the top unit lowers the need for good hitters, allowing the impi and other junk to have better chance of cleaning up.

Only issue is it'd take about 10 turns to build those trebs and ship them over. Elkad doesn't really have a reason to give Leiden up for peace unless I can threaten to raze the Confucian holy city either.

[Krill]

To be blunt, even if Elkad handed over Leiden, this civ needs about 20 turns of uninterrupted growth, the cities are way to low pop. With Pyramids, it really needs to get Nationalism ASAP for Merc, which is something like 150 base bpt right there I think that doubles the breakeven tech rate. But at the same time, need to jump into Caste for both hammers and those spec slots, and arguably even Nationhood to keep up military output. Not even sure of the right tech path to get there.

Also, Joey, what the fuck did you do with hte Music Artist?

[Krill]

Fuck it, I'm throwing caution to the wind. There is a small stack that is 3 tiles from The Hague, so unless Elkad has Engineering, he can't get it into his holy city this turn. He can probably defend it against the 4 Impi that I've positioned to attack next turn but I'm willing to sacrifice 4 Impi on this gambit. I've demanded Leiden so hopefully he get's the message, but I'm not hopeful that he'd accept under any circumstances.