[spoilers] Commodore and Dtay are Sitting Bull of Inca, somehow.

[Commodore]

That's a sad, sad little island. It would be a mercy to raze and salt the island before the game ends.

In other news, HAK is playing right now and just whipped/drafted half a dozen times. Yay golden age!

[Krill]

The games not a farce just yet, but this is farcical all the same...

[Commodore]

The games not a farce just yet, but this is farcical all the same...

Just a bit. I don't even think our golden age boy is the #2 GNP, horrifically. And HAK is top MFG, now (albeit this was before his whip/draft this turn), but only barely. I...begin to think that Liberalism->Steel might actually be doable.

Happy with the demos, definitely.

[Commodore]

Another turn, another day of zero Holy Roman fighting combined with Zulus doing all kinds of heavy lifting. I know I've been projecting an aura of breezy confidence, but make no mistake; Tasunke can throw and is throwing this game for HAK. They are allies; all the cash HAK is funneling over to Tas is right now purely benefiting himself, allowing Tas to reach Astronomy and then afford a big upgrade. We'll try to sue for peace with Cordon Sanitaire when the time comes if possible, but I don't expect to succeed. I think Tasunke has decided to kingmake for HAK over us, and I think that unfortunately we're just going to have to act like Tasunke has allied himself with HAK for the duration. That's not going to be fun, but there is nothing to do about it.

Nav1 caravels predominate in this theater, Statue of Zeus legacy there.

We're lacking in hulls at the moment; we only have this flacid little probe to land at the outer gates of Grumpy. I'd give the force (crossbows are shock, swords are CR2, catapults are 5xp) about even odds to burn the city as things stand, but landing a scouting sword shows a worker able to road, so the two cities down here are mutually supporting More castles, of course...honestly, I don't think he's done it on purpose, but HAK has kind of bumbled his way into a pretty awesome EP-economy setup...Nationhood, castles in every city, rathausai all over...we're getting swamped with EP out here and I don't think he's even trying. If he's smart, he'll leech Astronomy at half price from Tasunke shortly.

But we can at least console ourselves with the fact that he must be feeling mildly stressed.

I realize I seem a bit dour, but that mostly just the feeling that we're starting to fall behind less due to smart play on our rivals' parts, more due to complete lack of self interest (Tas) and bumbling into strong economy (HAK). I'd like for us to be able to get a leg up again with a big hefty Liberalism cash-in, but our own economic output is rather anemic for the era; a consequence of the smaller map size is that we're running around with a much smaller empire than most Ren-era tech leaders at this point. Dutchland ought to be worth one more whenever someone gets around to capping Amsterdam; that someone ain't us for now, though. Caste/Merch artists are working overtime at the moment in this area, all borders should be third-ring at least very soon. It ain't amazing land, but it's land, every bit helps. Perhaps we should just Lib Economics and fire a golden age.

Sitting Bull falls behind in later eras to Mehmed? Shocking.

[Old Harry]

Maybe he took offense when you called him crazy in the pb27 signup thread?

[Krill]

My clinical opinion isn't far removed from that tbh.

[Qgqqqqq]

They are allies; all the cash HAK is funneling over to Tas is right now purely benefiting himself, allowing Tas to reach Astronomy and then afford a big upgrade.

By the by, I think your tendency towards emotive language is overstating this and their relationship in general. (I don't read his thread because of personal issues with Mindy, so no spoilers here.)

Regardless of what might be underlying it, a tangible trade took place. In exchange for those cities HAK as an independant entity is losing out economically as a result. To clarify: would it be rational for him to simply gift Tasunke all (or a significant part) of his income at the moment? If no, then he is clearly losing out (if perhaps not as much as he ought) from this trade. If yes, then, well, I disagree with you from my limited outside perspective (especially if one considers just who is being trusted to make good use of his siphoned-away economy).

[Commodore]

Maybe he took offense when you called him crazy in the pb27 signup thread?

My clinical opinion isn't far removed from that tbh.

I guess so. Not seen much to dissuade me though, he's definitely in his manic phase around here lately.

They are allies; all the cash HAK is funneling over to Tas is right now purely benefiting himself, allowing Tas to reach Astronomy and then afford a big upgrade.

By the by, I think your tendency towards emotive language is overstating this and their relationship in general. (I don't read his thread because of personal issues with Mindy, so no spoilers here.)

Regardless of what might be underlying it, a tangible trade took place. In exchange for those cities HAK as an independant entity is losing out economically as a result. To clarify: would it be rational for him to simply gift Tasunke all (or a significant part) of his income at the moment? If no, then he is clearly losing out (if perhaps not as much as he ought) from this trade. If yes, then, well, I disagree with you from my limited outside perspective (especially if one considers just who is being trusted to make good use of his siphoned-away economy).

De facto, less du jure...the Alliance of Cloud Cuckooland isn't all about "defining the relationship" and such. I'm not decrying HAK, really...from the civstats it was clearly Tasunke who offered the cities in trade for a song, he'd be a fool not to take a deal like that, likewise his marble rental (the capital whip, while as Krill said is farcical, did in fact keep this game in contention, so there you go). Clearly he is doing tangible trades. It's more Tasunke who I am annoyed with, he's very much unilaterally kingmaking in HAK's favor. I'm not saying we're losing or anything, clearly not, but it feel rather personal on Tas' part. And of course HAK is being influenced by my #1 fan who also will kill me in my sleep someday, so that's...weird.

I do feel like we were one coinflip away from this being won and done, which is notably demoralizing.

[Commodore]

* I think that even "city trades allowed in peace deals," which is like, the one thing you'd want to have, turn out to be highly abuseable = How is it highly abusable? I think I need an example here. One that is not a jerk move.

Well, have you read any of PB25? Several examples in that game.

I suppose I cannot really comment on this, as I am an active participant of the Pitboss, but I really, really want to.
Here is the Pitboss 25 subforum http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=227
check my thread for a response (if ur not an active participant in the game)

Replying here because clearly diplo...but dude, it's not even about the price...it's about you selling cities to our competition and then using the money to fund Astronomy to help our competition in battle.

[Mardoc]

It's more Tasunke who I am annoyed with, he's very much unilaterally kingmaking in HAK's favor. I'm not saying we're losing or anything, clearly not, but it feel rather personal

Maybe he's roleplaying as GermanJoey After You Wrecked His Game?