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Oh man. I understand the temptation to read between the lines, but what is there in the rule that can be misinterpreted? It bans "trade offers that are not real" and offering your culture city definitely isn't a real trade offer.
If you insist then obviously we'll need a third party ruling and surely the named admins are the ones that should vote/decide/whatever is possible to organize. 
I need to go to sleep now, OH might be still awake to continue the discussion.
August 10th, 2015, 16:50
(This post was last modified: August 10th, 2015, 16:51 by Fintourist.)
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(August 10th, 2015, 16:43)Krill Wrote: Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...
Nah, unit gifts as well as overall king-making are either ok or not ok based on "don't be a jerk rule" and that can't really be enforced anyways..
TBS's countdown is not in principle not ok, and technically that's something what could be complained about, but probably not worth complicating the matter here.
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Er...I'm pretty sure you would have lost if I hadn't, well, trolled BGN and acted as a kingmaker. I was seriously tempted to just gift one after what you did in the dtay war.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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(August 10th, 2015, 16:43)Krill Wrote: Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...
Well, I gifted a few units to plako after CH was eliminated because I didn't much need them at that point, mission being accomplished and all. So I'm aware of my hypocrisy here, but I kept my actions far removed from anything involving the outcome of the game. Some of the other stuff going on that had bearing on the outcome I don't think was well done. But I prefer a rather strict position when it comes to third party interference so I'm sure some people will disagree about what was ok and what was over the line. I didn't like the later game unit gifting because it didn't serve to advance one's own position in the game, so was obviously for a more nefarious purpose. There are several examples of that, not just Krill and Joey. Obviously these players don't think they did anything against the rules, as nothing was expressly forbidden in what they did. So my question becomes, is the don't be a jerk rule still enough to govern us since we've obviously come to a point where we don't really have much consensus about what constitutes being a jerk? I'm loathe to believe that we can't play under loose rule sets because the alternative is also terribly unsatisfying (and likely just as ineffective). Probably need to figure out the rules situation before launching PB27.
xposted a few.
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(August 10th, 2015, 16:54)Krill Wrote: Er...I'm pretty sure you would have lost if I hadn't, well, trolled BGN and acted as a kingmaker.
Well he'd have had to go after TBS and we'd have had a chance to catch up. Might have been close, but who knows how it'd have turned out. Perhaps he'd actually have managed to stop TBS. 
(August 10th, 2015, 16:54)Krill Wrote: I was seriously tempted to just gift one after what you did in the dtay war.
Which dtay war and one what?
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
August 10th, 2015, 17:10
(This post was last modified: August 10th, 2015, 17:11 by Krill.)
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If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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As I should have said in my previous post:
I've enjoyed playing with all of you. Great job to Old Harry, Fintourist and Boldly for some excellent games. Thanks for everyone for playing on far too long. And special thanks to Yuris and Parkin for keeping my civ running for me while I was gone. 
Quote:Oh man. I understand the temptation to read between the lines, but what is there in the rule that can be misinterpreted? It bans "trade offers that are not real" and offering your culture city definitely isn't a real trade offer.
'Trade offers that are not real' is not the rule though. 'Communication' was not clear at all since pretty much any trade is communicating something and certainly disallows fish for fish etc if taken at face value. Numbers and letters then is a standard thing since PB13.
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So wait - someone won by culture? I wasn't even paying attention to that with the spaceships and UN stuff going on.
btw - people spend WAY too much time figuring out diplomacy. The most sophisticated I got was "sheep for sheep" probably means peace  which didn't stop me from debating attacking Moloch for most of the last part of the game... but it seemed kind of useless, and besides, BGN could have pretty easily taken us out if I did that. Not that he couldn't have anyway, but it would have been bloody...
good game!
Completed: PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57
Current: PB 52. Boudicca of Maya
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Responding to others:
Quote:TBS, GAs hidden on the galley/transport?
Yeah, I had 5 on a luxury cruise by Weldyn.
Quote:TBS getting coal may have done more to enhance his position in game, but it also is something that he could have actively pursued through available, legitimate means. Offer a diplo trade! Name a price! Or, have a lurker inform me that the map sucks, the lurkers totally spit the bit on map balance, and appeal to my very generous nature (I'm being genuine, not facetious).
I didn't feel any of these were options.
I couldn't have a lurker inform you, or anyone else, because that would have been illegal diplo. I was seriously tempted to bring it up at the time but felt I had no justification. After all, it's just a map issue, Xenu didn't complain that he got probably the worst spot on the map. There was no point in asking for it through trade because I didn't see how I could ensure keeping hold of it after 10t. In retrospect, I should have asked to make you aware of the situation but I assumed that you and OH, the only people with spare coal(the coal I eventually got off dtay was fortunately popped from a mine I think, even then I couldn't rely on it for a long time), would already have noticed.
I did get a bit angry with your aluminium trade to FinHarry due to this and said something to this effect in my thread somewhere. So apologies for that, I didn't realise at the time that you didn't know about my coal situation.
Quote:Unit gifts?
Surely you noticed those SAM I didn't have the tech for? I gifted back some tanks and battleships.
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(August 10th, 2015, 17:10)Krill Wrote: If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.
What? We enabled you to chop your neighbour in half and stayed at war with him for ten turns after you stopped doing anything just to give you cover. Did you have a brilliant plan to destroy him in place that we didn't notice? Was going off to pick a fight with Ruff while we were covering your back just subtle misdirection?
When would you have won by if you were in control of our empire?
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
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