[PB22 Spoiler] Joey and Borsche puke on the funny pages

[BRickAstley]

GG Team Portugal!

But what you're really wanting to say is

[GermanJoey]

GG Team Portugal!

But what you're really wanting to say is

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean, I can't blame them for wanting revenge, its just that, even rationally understanding that, I'm still not happy being revenged against...

[2metraninja]

GG man.

Have no time to read much lately, just wanted to point out those ICBMs were not gifts, but sales - it costed me 1000 gold per piece.

[GermanJoey]

Well I'm glad to learn that, although you probably shouldn't have said that until the game is over...

GG to you too!

[Krill]

Haha. Selling nukes to slow down an ss participant v selling ga to speed up culture win.

Funny. Yeah banning all unit trades is probably necessary...

[Gavagai]

Joey, just one question: who initiated all the wars between you, me and 2metra? I find it pretty hilarious that you were DOWing left and right Hitler-style and yet portraying yourself a victim.

[GermanJoey]

The first war with you vs me+gawdzak was a matter of either team up on you or concede the game. The second war - that was you ramping up to attack me after I had completely shut down military production for a very long time, I just declared war a half a turn before you got the jump and wiped me completely. You even admit this in your thread.

[Gavagai]

The first war with you vs me+gawdzak was a matter of either team up on you or concede the game. The second war - that was you ramping up to attack me after I had completely shut down
military production for a very long time, I just declared war a half a turn before you got the jump and wiped me completely. You even admit this in your thread.

I never admited anything of this kind because I never made the final decision to attack you. If after reading my threat you still believe that I wanted the war, it means that your ability to bend your perception of reality towards your wishes and fears is even more remarkable than I expected.

Relevant quotes from my thread are below.

I think very soon I will have everything in place to crush him into a total oblivion: mostly, I only need several nukes. The question is if I want to do it as Gawdzak is still
there and I just don't have a good angle to attack him; though it seems that Gawdzak's economy is noticably weaker than mine and Joey's.

That was said before the war. After the war I said this:

Was I planning to attack him? Most likely no. I felt comfortable to have this option on table but while I felt that I can win without wars, Joey was safe. Of course, I wasn't planning to attack without to switching to Police State and that wasn't possible until my GA. And most surely I wouldn't even think of attacking if Joey just repositioned his main fleet to safety - a thing he could easily do.

And here is some more background about why the war option was even on the table.

This is an island where the main battle took place. To the very east you may spot a Joey's fort which was already there back then. He kept his main fleet (which, at peak, was a little below 100 combat ships) right to the west from it. There always were quite a few transports under this fleet and they could hit Elysia, Amarah Prime, Bakka and Deliverance (with circumnavigation and Nav1). By contrast, my fleet was 1N from Deliverance and could hit exactly nothing. This asymmetry understandably was making me uncomfortable.
There always was an option to put my fleet in the lake at the center of the island. From there I could reach his fleet and three of his cities without putting myself at risk. Of course, he would have an option to raze Bakka and Amarah and trap it. That's why I was hesitating to actually put my ships there. But after some deliberations I decided to go for it and to give Amarah an unbreakable defense (about thirty infantries, a handful of knights and some other stuff; I remember there were 49 units total). It was only possible because Joey had very few missiles and little air presence. After he had got more, I would had to drop this plan and to pull my fleet away.
(That was one of the reasons I even considered attacking Joey at first place: in equilibrium situation he was going to have a significant advantage with this deployment and it made sense to use the window when he was vulnerable.)
I expected Joey to react in kind by putting his ships behind the fort; that would remove the pressure from Bakka and Deliverance and would also make it impossible for him to trap my fleet. On the other hand, he would still have the ability to reach two of my cities and would have his ships in safety. That seemed like a stable arrangement but he didn't want it, I have no idea why. He opted to do nothing and to keep his ships in place. That put me in a very awkward situation: I could obliterate his fleet or I could wait until he had enough air power to pressure me away from the lake. That surely put a strong incentive on me to pre-emptively attack. I wonder, if he realized that.

Basically, war with you was ALWAYS a nightmare scenario for me. If I ever considered to attack you first it was only with the purpose to remove a huge threat which your fleet posed. I literally can't believe that you was seriously afraid of aggression on my part. Attacking you was pretty much the stupidest thing I could have done and I'm not an idiot.

[Commodore]

Hah, somehow I missed this first time through.

I'm not familiar with the personas of this forum, what is horrid about bordering Commodore?

I think his old avatar text sums him up best... "Narrative Winner, War Winner, Game Loser." To break it down:

• Very good player mechanically
  
• One of the best tacticians on the forum, if not the very best. Extremely creative in warfare.
  
• Is insanely aggressive to his neighbors, and a big believer in attrition warfare.
  
• If you have a weakness, he will find it - a true predator.
  
• Makes impulsive, bizarre strategic decisions for "fun"
  
• Extreme, truly extreme tunnel-vision
  
• Gets caught "narratives" that he constructs for his opponents that may or may not have anything to do with reality, (the scary thing is, he often does peg people exactly, maybe hitting just as often as he misses), and generally wants to see his narratives taken to their "proper" conclusion than try to win the game.
  
• British of some sort - maybe this says it all?
  

I've read a lot of his threads (he's a really good reporter, fun to read), and IMHO the best way to see Commodore in action is PBEM62: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=213

First of all, he lobbied for a tight, cramped map. (be super cautious about letting Commdore choose your map settings!) Next, when given the option to pick from some top-tier combos (the pick setup was that the mapmaker rolled 20 leaders+civs, then picked the 10 best to offer to the players to pick) he instead picked Charlemagne of India, a ridiculous pick considering that the game was BTS. For reference, other players had like Viccy of China or Isabella of England, fantastic leaders with perfect starting techs, while he had one of the game's worst leaders with no starting techs and double-AH food. Next, he pink-dotted his neighbor, Pindicator, with his second city, founding Hinduism on the turn he settled so that its instant BFC overlapped with Pind's capital's third-ring. Next, he rushed with chariots, razing Pind's second plant, the Buddhist holy city. He then got a mobility axe with his first Imp GG, and was able to choke Pind almost to death, all while complaining, "Ah, its too bad Pind is going on tilt and I have to keep fighting this duel" as if this were such an unreasonable reaction to all his aggression. Finally, the game ended in a concession to another player, Ichabod, who had fought no early wars of insanity, expanded massively, and built lots of great wonders (mids, GLH, and TGL iirc), when it was clear that Commodore had no chance to catch up. Commodore's thoughts about why he lost? His terrible leader pick? His slow start? His pink dot and early rush from which he gained no cities? His continued harassment of dying France despite Ichabod being just as close to him? No, he thought it was because he didn't whip the GLH to completion a turn before Ichabod finished it naturally. Narrative winner, War winner, Game loser indeed!

Be very very afraid if you're near him in PB25!

Also, I'm an American, my teeth are excellent and my liver is intact.

[GermanJoey]

The first war with you vs me+gawdzak was a matter of either team up on you or concede the game. The second war - that was you ramping up to attack me after I had completely shut down
military production for a very long time, I just declared war a half a turn before you got the jump and wiped me completely. You even admit this in your thread.

I never admited anything of this kind because I never made the final decision to attack you. If after reading my threat you still believe that I wanted the war, it means that your ability to bend your perception of reality towards your wishes and fears is even more remarkable than I expected.

Relevant quotes from my thread are below.

I think very soon I will have everything in place to crush him into a total oblivion: mostly, I only need several nukes. The question is if I want to do it as Gawdzak is still
there and I just don't have a good angle to attack him; though it seems that Gawdzak's economy is noticably weaker than mine and Joey's.

That was said before the war. After the war I said this:

Was I planning to attack him? Most likely no. I felt comfortable to have this option on table but while I felt that I can win without wars, Joey was safe. Of course, I wasn't planning to attack without to switching to Police State and that wasn't possible until my GA. And most surely I wouldn't even think of attacking if Joey just repositioned his main fleet to safety - a thing he could easily do.

And here is some more background about why the war option was even on the table.

This is an island where the main battle took place. To the very east you may spot a Joey's fort which was already there back then. He kept his main fleet (which, at peak, was a little below 100 combat ships) right to the west from it. There always were quite a few transports under this fleet and they could hit Elysia, Amarah Prime, Bakka and Deliverance (with circumnavigation and Nav1). By contrast, my fleet was 1N from Deliverance and could hit exactly nothing. This asymmetry understandably was making me uncomfortable.
There always was an option to put my fleet in the lake at the center of the island. From there I could reach his fleet and three of his cities without putting myself at risk. Of course, he would have an option to raze Bakka and Amarah and trap it. That's why I was hesitating to actually put my ships there. But after some deliberations I decided to go for it and to give Amarah an unbreakable defense (about thirty infantries, a handful of knights and some other stuff; I remember there were 49 units total). It was only possible because Joey had very few missiles and little air presence. After he had got more, I would had to drop this plan and to pull my fleet away.
(That was one of the reasons I even considered attacking Joey at first place: in equilibrium situation he was going to have a significant advantage with this deployment and it made sense to use the window when he was vulnerable.)
I expected Joey to react in kind by putting his ships behind the fort; that would remove the pressure from Bakka and Deliverance and would also make it impossible for him to trap my fleet. On the other hand, he would still have the ability to reach two of my cities and would have his ships in safety. That seemed like a stable arrangement but he didn't want it, I have no idea why. He opted to do nothing and to keep his ships in place. That put me in a very awkward situation: I could obliterate his fleet or I could wait until he had enough air power to pressure me away from the lake. That surely put a strong incentive on me to pre-emptively attack. I wonder, if he realized that.

Basically, war with you was ALWAYS a nightmare scenario for me. If I ever considered to attack you first it was only with the purpose to remove a huge threat which your fleet posed. I literally can't believe that you was seriously afraid of aggression on my part. Attacking you was pretty much the stupidest thing I could have done and I'm not an idiot.

So we go from "very soon I will have everything in place to crush him into a total oblivion" to "Was I planning to attack him? Most likely no." Hmmm. Seems like you changed your mind post-mortem once you realized what the consequences would be, but by that point your in-game actions absolutely indicated "I am going to try to crush you." First of all, despite Gawdzak and I stopping at an equilibrium power level for at least a half-dozen turns, you built up +1M troops above us. I can't blame you for this. However. As you built up an advantage, you postured against me more and more aggressively. If you weren't planning to attack, what the FUCK were you doing with your subs? What the fuck! To me, this is the ultimate indication that both then and now you think I'm a weak fool and that you can easily lie directly to my face. It is so insulting. Turn after turn I watched these roll in and surround my transport chains. Did you honestly not think I could see them even though I had an airship or fighter in every other city to look for exactly that sort of thing? I had been scanning everywhere, against Gawdzak too. What was the point, if not to stymie my ability to reinforce Maracana in the event of a land invasion?

Turn after turn I tried to ignore them, but then you moved your main stack into that lake. Well, what was I supposed to do about that? Did you not realize that Gawdzak had just as large of a fleet sitting on the other side of the straight? Surely, you must; I had my fleet exactly in the middle between both of you. If I had moved my fleet to the other side of the channel, you could have blown up my fort with bombers or missiles and left my fleet stranded on the other side, and had been free to rampage around my core as Gawdzak had once done to yours. Likewise, if I moved my fleet to the south but on the same side of the channel, I was vulnerable to Gawdzak in a similar way. We weren't ever more than fair-weather allies when we teamed up against you, and I was terrified that he'd take revenge against me when I peaced out to save myself at Maracana.

You consider opponents so poorly.