Gavagai manages his personal GULAG

[Bacchus]

The question now is, do we aim to shove a fist of knights down Krill's throat as soon as we can to raze stuff? It's duel mentality, but if everything is successful with Tsargon, duel mentality might be exactly what we need. Krill is Agg/Spi, we probably will never have such a big advantage as in about 30 turns, when we have Org and courthouses online, whilst his economy is tanked and gunpowder units are still irrelevant (Agg promotion on Pikes does little, but becomes relevant on Muskets).

EDIT: Even if we just force him to spend the immediate post-conquest stage militarizing, rather than building up the economy, it will be a significant long-term achievement. Plus disruption of improvements whilst we can, aren't towns now unpillageable?

[Gavagai]

I think that as a general rule attacking Krill is a horrible idea. Much better option is to set up a contain against him and expand north. Barteq is very vulnerable to blitzkreig, we should definitely turn our attention to him after our eastern border is stabilized. People to the north of him (AT and Molach) also seem to be softer targets than Krill. Anyway, it's too early for this kind of planning. First we need to swallow Tsargon without choking.

[Bacchus]

Looking at the geography I don't see how containment is possible.

[Gavagai]

Looking at the geography I don't see how containment is possible.

How can you see that given that we have no idea where Krill is and how exactly his land is shaped? Also, we don't need a full contain, this is even undesirable. If we redirect Krill's ambitions to the east, it will do the job.

[Bacchus]

Because what we see is a sprawling landmass to our east, south-east and north-east and, exactly, no Krill. Even if we take everything we see from Tsargon, which is in itself unlikely, we are not going to be containing Krill in any way.

EDIT: We are not even going to be influencing HAK meaningfully, who we can see, much less containing anyone who is even further away than that.

[Gavagai]

Well, it goes without saying that we will move to the east until we run into Krill. At this point we will stop expansion and set up a contain. What do you mean that it is unlikely that we take everything we see from Tsargon? Who exactly will take it if not us?

[Bacchus]

What if he isn't even there, what if he is in Adrien's direction, or even on the other side of him? What if he is to HAK's south? You have to have at least some idea of what you are trying to contain before you can plan to do so. If this works out, great, but from the info at hand it's far more likely we will need an expeditionary force of some sort.

As to Tsargon's lands, as I said before, even HAK has a higher power rating than him, and I assume there are other neighbours, of which we just found one. And how far east can we go anyway, Tsargon's current eastern borders are what, 15-20 tiles away from our current ones? We will be very stretched logistically even just taking that.

[Gavagai]

What if he isn't even there, what if he is in Adrien's direction, or even on the other side of him?

Then we will use Adrien as a buffer until Krill chews through him. Then we set up a contain.

What if he is to HAK's south?

Sucks to be HAK then. We will split HAK with him and set up a contain.

If this works out, great, but from the info at hand it's far more likely we will need an expeditionary force of some sort.

If he is so far away that there is no point in containing him, sending out expeditionary force will be even more ridiculous.

[Gavagai]

As to Tsargon's lands, as I said before, even HAK has a higher power rating than him

Not allowing HAK to steal land from me second time in a row.

and I assume there are other neighbours

Depending on their power we either push them back or allow Krill to conquer them and set up a contain.

And how far east can we go anyway, Tsargon's current eastern borders are what, 15-20 tiles away from our current ones? We will be very stretched logistically even just taking that.

We can go as far as the Party wants. Armed proletariat can handle any challenge.

[Bacchus]

Actually, the more I look at it, the more I think our only real hope is to end up with more land after our war than Krill will have after his. Which is a bit of a Hail Mary. But I don't see how we can be projecting enough force to influence any theatre beyond Tsargon militarily, whilst also worrying about our northern front.

I also don't understand all this empty space on Tsargon's borders, it's as if there is a whole wilderness buffer to the east before we come to anyone else.