Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[BRickAstley]

Map Stuff

For future games we could just send out the game with capitals already settled in place, if players desire a game with balanced start locations.

[Commodore]

Map Stuff

For future games we could just send out the game with capitals already settled in place, if players desire a game with balanced start locations.

Or you could surround the players with pre-railed mines. Seeing as how they're already getting railroaded...

[GermanJoey]

Who builds maces?

I do, sometimes. Also, all (or almost all) people I played against had an occasional mace or two in their armies. Maces absolutely have a niche use as a universal support unit, definitely more so than swords pre-buff. When you say that no one builds them you mean that no one spams them like we do with knights, or Horse Archers. But this is fine. I don't think we can realistically aim at making all units similary useful.

Yeah I'm exaggerating a bit by saying "no one builds them"; I too will build 1 or 2 as universal support units. However they get quickly replaced by Muskets in that role. And I still think its weird that its better not to unlock the more advanced unit because the obsoleted unit is better.

[GermanJoey]

Map Stuff

For future games we could just send out the game with capitals already settled in place, if players desire a game with balanced start locations.

I guess that's a decent workaround. It still feels ridiculous to have to work around the damn mod.

edit: Also, you guys are crazy if you think Vassalage is better than Bureau in general. I showed some math to this effect in PB22, but there the situation was a.) My capital was pretty mediocre, b.) My empire was really widely flung, and c.) I was Agg, which meant I get special benefit from Vassalage (3-promo melee units). Bureau is still an extremely good civic, and you'd be a fool to simply overlook it...

[Gavagai]

[quote='GermanJoey' pid='570906' dateline='1449225323']
Who builds maces?

And I still think its weird that its better not to unlock the more advanced unit because the obsoleted unit is better.

So, maces aren't the problem, swords are the problem. That was my point.

EDIT: Also, no way I'm going to play a game with a pre-placed capital. Moving should always be an option, to troll the mapmakers at the very least.

[GermanJoey]

EDIT: Also, no way I'm going to play a game with a pre-placed capital. Moving should always be an option, to troll the mapmakers at the very least.

I totally agree, which is why if I'm spending tons of hours on a map I'd like to make sure the game isn't ruined from T0 just because one or two people accidentally got a 4-food + gold capital and most others did not simply because the former guys' scouts were had a clear path to the super-site, and the latter guys had a random hill or tree in the way. It's a totally fucking stupid way to decide a game that you plan to play for a year.

[GermanJoey]

So, maces aren't the problem, swords are the problem. That was my point.

Well, my point is that in BTS nobody* builds Swords or Maces.

*nobody meaning "most players very rarely/sparsely build"

[Cheater Hater]

Maybe the problem isn't that Maces are too weak, but instead that Knights are too strong, Pikes are too weak and/or Muskets come too soon? The biggest problem is that Guilds for Knights isn't out of the way like HR is for Horse Archers (at least for the time; obviously you still need HR). I don't know what you'd do about that--make a new "Advanced HR" tech you need for Knights/Cuirs/Cavs (in addition to what you currently need)? Move them a bit deeper in the tech tree (maybe even just doing a straight swap of Guilds and Banking, as crazy as that sounds)? For Pikes, I'm assuming just making them 7 strength is way too strong, as is increasing the mounted bonus--maybe something like giving them a defense against collateral, so you are encouraged to use Maces? Then again, Axes still beat them, which is a problem. Muskets is the more tricky one--is the problem that you can't get Pinch while behind in tech? The best answer seems like having Gunpowder just make Pinch more available (say, after Combat I instead of Combat II), but that sounds complicated to code

[novice]

Are these things really problems?

Generally speaking, it's fine to strive for a game with no One Right Choice, but that doesn't mean that there can't be any wrong choices.

[Krill]

Wrong choices should be in how you use a unit, rather than the wrong choice being to build a unit ie all units should have a purpose, a niche to fill.

In other words what novice said.