Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore

Create an account  

 
RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

WilliamLP Wrote:I'd say that as of now, Spullla is now the odds-on favourite to win this thing once again

I'm not sure when they stopped being the odds-on favorite wink

This whole CoW campaign was an unmitigated disaster throughout, and all of the involved civs should really try to learn from the solid string of mistakes we've witnessed. For all the talk of the Ottoman diplo efforts, which were very good at a strategic level, the tactical coordination has been at best a D- throughout the coalition.

I don't know how much detail regoarrarr or Dreylin posted about our 3-way attack on Exploit in RBP1, but that was an example of how to do a mediocre job planning a war. Let me explain:

Good way to plan a war: Apolyton demogame backstab
*Strategic planning 50 turns out
*Tactical planning 5-10 turns out
*100% of available units in-theater by the DoW turn
*Complex 'hit-from-3-directions' battleplan
*~10 players on Teamspeak during the attack discussion combat order and unit promotions

Mediocre way to plan a war: Indian-Spanish-Sumerian attack on Inca in RBP1
*Strategic planning 10 turns out
*Tactical planning 2-3 turns out
*90% of available units in-theater by the DoW turn (units were slaved to be available for the T191 invasion turn but not every build in every city that could have been hurried was hurried)
*Simple 'all-in' battleplan with mild misdirection
*Most days all three participants logged on to GChat simultaneously to discuss the current turns' plans

The cool thing however is that due to the law of diminishing returns we had almost the same level of effectiveness in both instances. I'm sure we missed a few opportunities, and our opponent certain cooperated, but the main goals of attacking when and where we wanted to with some tactical surprise and no obvious smoke moves was accomplished. I don't bring this up to brag, but rather to point out that with a half dozen emails sent prior to the war, the dedication to actually follow the plan the emails spelled out, and maybe an hour per day during the war we could approach the level of success of the hundreds of man-hours that went into the RB-Imperio war.

Now lets look at the CoW:

Poor way to plan a war: CoW attack on India
*No coherent strategic plan - The composition of forces and the DoW turns changed almost through the first DoW.
*No discernible tactical coordination whatsoever. Units arrived across a ~10t window, moved seemingly at random, stacks didn't merge, and defensive terrain wasn't utilized.
*Fewer than 50% of units in-theater at the initial DoW.
*2/3 of the total committed units lost their element of surprise by allowing Indian units to spot them because of either open borders or not understanding visibility rules (!)
*Little coordination amongst participants, so no ability to catch smoke moves

Overall I can forgive lots of little mistakes - after all many people are new to MP civ. But not taking the time to actually discuss the attack plans in detail with each other and allow your allies to help point out potential mistakes and oversights is pretty inexcusable IMHO.
Reply

sunrise Wrote:the main goals of attacking when and where we wanted to with some tactical surprise and no obvious smoke moves was accomplished.

You mean apart from you landing on the complete wrong tile the turn of war declaration? lol
Reply

Well it was easier to coordinate in RBP1 as you could all move in from the same side, in this conflict two initial fronts were unavoidable. But I agree that things were handled poorly. Someone called it a comedy of errors in Spulllas thread, that was quite apt (and shakespearean).
I have to run.
Reply

regoarrarr Wrote:You mean apart from you landing on the complete wrong tile the turn of war declaration? lol

Yes, apart from that. That's a good example of a player making too bold of a gamble though, and loosing. My thinking was "in normal MP games I can make this kind of move right at the end of the turn 99% of the time, so why not risk it here too?"

The RBP3 version would be "I wonder what tile I should move to? I won't think about it in advance, nor will I ask anyone else about it. Instead I'll just sort of pick at random the turn after my units have been spotted by the enemy."

EDIT:
novice Wrote:Well it was easier to coordinate in RBP1 as you could all move in from the same side, in this conflict two initial fronts were unavoidable. But I agree that things were handled poorly. Someone called it a comedy of errors in Spulllas thread, that was quite apt (and shakespearean).

Right, but in way this makes it easier too - all that needed to happen initially (once the grand strategic error was made re: Rome's arrival time) was for the Ottomans and Greeks to pick a good staging tile and then for the Mali and HRE civs to pick a route for their units. Best I can tell that didn't happen.
Reply

Yazilliclick Wrote:I don't trust anybody in diplo games wink Everybody is out to win and you only get there by beating your opponents.

Out of those I trust most from reading the emails I'd say probably Athlete/Kalin. I'd probably put the people in this order:
  1. AK
  2. Whosit - he's helping but yet on the other side of world
  3. Dantski
  4. Nakor
  5. Broker
  6. Sulla - can't trust anything your enemy says.
Everybody seems to be ignoring the Inca. I don't really understand why.
I have to run.
Reply

Guess they are doing a good job of laying low. smile
Reply

zakalwe Wrote:Guess they are doing a good job of laying low. smile
Good point. smile
Korea hasn't even contact with them yet... I wonder how many teams have Inca's graphs. Inca can't be doing too horribly, they have lots of land after Mortius early demise and Whosit's negligence in his east.
I have to run.
Reply

novice Wrote:Everybody seems to be ignoring the Inca. I don't really understand why.

Because their diplo play has been pretty much non existent (what with no consistent turn player and all).
Reply

looks like they may start entering into the Diplomatic Fray sooner than you think...
Jowy Wrote:Thanks for the list Yaz. Not much different from mine, I guess I'm on the right track then! Btw I opened diplomatic relations yesterday with the new Incans led by slaze. It'll be exciting to see how'll that work out. He's atleast saying he's friends with Ottomans now and against India, but I of course don't trust him at all yet. Still diplomacy is never useless, it's good to have more open options even if they seem worse at current time.

although i question the wisdom of stating sides yet, atleast its contact atlast with the new regime.
Reply

Slaze is a good player from what i've seen of him prevouisly, give him 10 -15 turns and I suspect he'll make his presence felt.
Reply



Forum Jump: