RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Beamup]

I don't quite understand why Spullla would offer that and let Jowy keep Athens...?

If Athens and Argos had burned, there's no way Jowy would've taken peace - he'd have nothing left to lose, really, since Corinth wouldn't suffice to rebuild meaningfully. And they'd have had to burn the cities until the Praets were eliminated. This way they get two cities and don't have to invest in more fighting. They're stronger than if they proceeded, and Jowy's still pretty decisively crippled.

[Kristian95]

I am sure Spullla offers peace because they think they will benefit more from switching back to economy asap.... to make sure they catch up with (mainly) Kathlete and Whosit (if he ever get's his economic wheels spinning faster)...

In general I think Spullla believe the peace offer is a win/win situation for them, i.e. they win either way (not in terms of the game but in terms of getting solid gains).

[m4gill4]

We're not apologizing for keeping quiet about all our plans before either. You can see how even one or two units in the wrong place at the wrong time could have screwed this all up. And that's not an indictment of the lurkers, who I'm sure have done a great job, just that we had a ton riding on this thing and didn't want to allow even a very minor chance of something slipping out accidentally. I don't think we "owe" a complete description of everything we're thinking about.

Update for today: we're supposed to get our connection fixed at home by Verizon sometime this afternoon. I really hope so, as Speaker and I have barely been in contact for the past few days.

The idea of demanding Thebes for peace, and faking at it while really going for Sparta and Athens is a very attractive one. Just to show how this would work, take a look at the following picture:



We would put a stack of one-movers (axes, spears, cats, etc.) on the yellow tile, and start slowly bombing down the walls in Thebes. Jowy would have to respect that, and will rush his defenders into the city. But we don't care about Thebes - if we did take the city, we'd just raze it - so we'd have Speaker's 10 horse archers and 2 general axes hidden on the white tile, where they can't be seen by Jowy.

When we wanted to attack, we'd move along the red line (building a road in the process) onto the sheep tile. If we do this with like 1 minute left on the timer, there's no possibility of whipping in Sparta or moving defenders over from Thebes before the next turn starts, and by then it's already too late. (Jowy doesn't have Construction right now, so even 2-movers couldn't reach Sparta from Thebes.) We push through Sparta and finish on the forest tile NE of the city, from which point we can reach Athens on the following turn! And the decoy stack on the yellow tile could simply move into Sparta to garrison it as the mounted units race ahead to raze Athens.

Of course we don't have 10 horse archers right now (I think we have three), but the tactical plan is sound. Just to make sure that they reject the peace offer, why don't we demand Thebes *AND* Argos? Love to see Jowy's face when he reads that one!

Well, hopefully I'll be online tonight to discuss this in detail, Speaker.

what changed in between the 2nd quote and the 1st? I've been cheering for sullla but that first post just rubs me the wrong way.

[M.Prince]

Criticizing S&S re. their secrecy is pointless.

we had a ton riding on this thing and didn't want to allow even a very minor chance of something slipping out accidentally

Things *do* slip out accidentally. Unless you stop posting entirely, there is a chance, however minor, and however unimportant it turns out to be, there is a chance that something you picked up in one thread affects your activity in another. Sullla and Speaker wanted the maximum chance of success. That's how they play. And that mentality is part of what makes them so good. Leave them to it.

even something as simple as "isn't Sparta awfully lightly defended?" would have been a disaster for us.

[Selrahc]

You have less faith in your lurkers than any other team. 5 team coordinated to attack you but you never heard a peep. And now your lurkers are the enemy? Jeez come off it! Of course you don't "owe" your lurkers anything but there's no reason to talk down to them

I don't think it is that bad that they wanted to keep things secret for a little while. It is a little weird that they posted a complete in depth screenshotted guide to the plan and *then* tried to keep it secret. But definitely not anger inducing.

[m4gill4]

Criticizing S&S re. their secrecy is pointless.
Things *do* slip out accidentally. Unless you stop posting entirely, there is a chance, however minor, and however unimportant it turns out to be, there is a chance that something you picked up in one thread affects your activity in another. Sullla and Speaker wanted the maximum chance of success. That's how they play. And that mentality is part of what makes them so good. Leave them to it.

They can play how they want but I don't have to like it. If everyone adopted their "tactic" of hiding from the lurkers it wouldn't be much fun to spectate and they might as well play a private game. In and of itself it's fine but the tone of condescension is what I find most annoying.

[novice]

I think the Holy Roman Empire has a stronger position in this game than their opponents generally give them credit for. Spullla keeps bringing up Whosit as a main contender, but I think the train is about to leave the station for Rome. The HRE, however, can colonize a nice chunk of Centralia and have the economy to do so.

[WilliamLP]

It's been incredible to watch the absolutely miraculous turn-around over the last 20 turns. Does any team other than Spullla now have even a token chance of winning?

• They now have assured peace until T150, 28 turns Seeing what they can do even over spans of five turns, this seems like an eternity.
  
• With fast workers and Elizabeth, they have arguably the best set of traits to dominate the tech and expansion for the middle and late game.
  
• They are still at least equal in the tech race to any other team. And now they have an astounding military as well!
  
• Rome is falling hopelessly behind economically and when maces, longbows, and crossbows start showing up, and then knights, they are going to be basically irrelevant.
  
• HRE now has some serious tensions with Dantski, which will slow potential expansion.
  
• Slaze is starting to make Inca interesting again, enough that Whosit and Kathlete are going to have to pay serious attention. And even Korea is now making a serious impression over in that side of the world. And with a stable ally to the south, ironically, in the short term, Spullla is now in the safest position in the world.
  
• They will pick up yet another incredible triple food city where Sparta used to be.
  
• Obviously not least, their Civ skills and micro are on another plane above any other team in this game, if not several planes.
  

I'm still very interested in this game, but I really wonder if it hasn't been decided completely now.

[Beamup]

I can't wait to see Jowy's reaction when New Sparta is founded, given that refounding it was #1 on his priority list.

[Rowain]

I'm still very interested in this game, but I really wonder if it hasn't been decided completely now.

My take after the signed peace with Dantski

From a lurker POV this is a mixed blessing. On one hand we can expect a lot of informative, educational posts on the them 'How to manage an empire' from you OTOH the remainig 200-250 turns will be very boring 'watch Sullla/Speaker stomp everyone into the ground (first ecomnomical and than military wise)'.